Andreus on 5/3/2007 at 21:05

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Too much to put in a big spoiler bubble, I'm afraid. Consider yourself warned.

My unanswered ponderings centre mostly around our favourite ghostly wayward orphan, Lauryl, and her freaky domicile:

* Why was her soul trapped by the Cradle before it burnt to the ground? Did she originally just haunt the attic for her own reasons (most likely her untimely death), but was later further entrapped by the odd, malevolent, unexplained sentience that the Cradle developed?
* Why did none of the other inmates, staffers or orphans of Shalebridge show themselves in spectral, sentient form like she did? Was her ability to do so herself tied to the fact that Garrett recognised her? If so, could one theoretically "free" another spirit-prisoner of the Cradle by remembering them?
* How did she know where Gamall put her body if she was trapped in the attic of the Cradle? (Perhaps her desecrated body acted as an "Anchor" for her, that kept her spirit in the realm of the living, and through some mystical sixth sense, she knew where it was?) How did she know what Gamall did to her body (namely the markings on her grave)?
* Is Gamall "wearing" Lauryl's skin? It appears that some victims of the Hag have their skin stripped off of them - is this how she uses their form? Drept said "some who meet her doth vanish - others are found dead, with bloody work done upon their bodies". Does she instead "use" the ones that vanish, in a similar way to Lauryl? Who do the various faces, limbs and viscera visible in her "body" belong to?
* Where Gamall's glyphs meant to entrap Lauryl's spirit, or was that an unintentional side effect? In fact, Lauryl says that "she put those marks there, so I couldn't ever leave" - leave where? Does this mean that Gamall is in fact responsible for Shalebridge's spooky fate?
* When you free Lauryl, where does she go? (One would assume she disappears to an afterlife of some description). Who is talking to her when she says "Huh? Oh, I have to go!"? (Trickster? The Master Builder? Some other deific entity not named in the series?)
* Why can other people see Lauryl? Is that an effect of freeing her from the Cradle? Why are the Hammerites afraid of her?
* Why can the man in Black Alley (telling the story of how he went near the Cradle) hear Lauryl?
* What happened to the man who slept in the Cradle as a dare? Why can no trace of his body be found? Why can no trace of any staffer or child's body be found, for that matter? (Although, the somewhat questionable remains in the Birdgirl and Gourmet's cells may be an answer to that one...)
* Why can Moss Arrows be found in the Sleepwalker's room? (One possible explanation is that his fits of fugue were actually caused by Pagan possession...)
* What happened to Drept that meant he wasn't in Shalebridge on the day of the fire?
* Did Garrett ever actually leave the Shalebridge Cradle? (Odd question, I know, but think about it for a bit...)
* Why can't the Cradle reanimate the Puppets after Garrett kills them? Presumably when Garrett kills normal undead (through flashbombs, holy water or fire arrows) he drives out whatever animating force keeps their bodies moving (and bound together, as well - presumably why they collapse to dust when Garrett kills them). However, Puppets don't crumble to dust, which presumably means they are bound together by something stronger than a Pagan's spell (which seems to be the main reason undead appear in Thief: DS, at least). They also take more to take down. If the Cradle can keep them solid, even after "death" (deanimation?), why can't it make them get back up more often?
* Where did he get the wax?!

Another set of questions are tied to the "Final Glyph", at the end of Thief:DS.

* Is the Final Glyph an end to Glyphs, or does it simply diminish or "reset" them?
* Does the Final Glyph put an end to Pagan and Hammerite magics as well?
* What did the Keepers actually do with Gamall, presuming their Glyph powers were diminished/gone? (Although I imagine swords, knives and staves still work for them...)
* What happened to the Sentients when they were used in the Failsafe? Are they gone?
* What would happen to the Keeper Enforcers, changed as they are by the Glyphs?
* Why did Gamall revert to (what was presumably) her original form, instead of just crumbling apart?

Finally:

* Why do the Pagans and the Hammerites tolerate you being friendly with the other side?

Andreus on 7/3/2007 at 02:53

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Not entirely sure on your point here (sorry if it's just me being slow). She put the marks on Lauryl's grave so she could never leave... what? The physical realm?

Pitch on 9/3/2007 at 15:59

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I don't know how to answer that question in context of Thief World, but here's the actual reason for this: (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1085379#post1085379) clicky

RavynousHunter on 9/3/2007 at 20:19

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I believe that the different articles that she had there like her diary and blood, were acting as what is commonly referred to as "anchors", something a spirit had an affinity to in life or some part of them that still lingers, like blood and other bodily ... things.



It might be possible that Garrett, having been exposed to the Glyphs, just as Lauryl's spirit was, acted as a medium, and the memory of her triggered something that bridged the gap between the material and astral planes so they could more easily communicate.



Considering the amazing powers of the Glyphs, (in this case, the Glyph of Transmutation) it would seem more likely that the skin and/or bodies were used as material components so that she could alter her form at will. Kind of like using the binding ritual in Ultima IX, you needed the reagents only once, in the binding of the spell, after which, all that was required was the magical energy of the caster to utilize whatever spell happened to be bound within thier spellbook.



Thats an interesting question... I believe that she puts those glyphs on all of her victims (the "strange markings" that Drept mentions) to entrap thier spirits so that they cant enter the afterlife. Perhaps she uses thier energy to empower herself and extend her life.



Couldve been a programmer error, that or when she was freed, she had enough power to retain visible form so that Garrett could follow her more easily. As for the Hammers' reaction to her, what did you expect, a tea party? :cheeky:



Most likely, it was that she had enough energy, at the time, to send messages of warning to those who came too close. That or, again, his tresspass was a triggering mechanism that enabled her to speak to him.



Maybe he had it before he got there... :confused:



Well, considering that they're not based off of the same 'system' as the Glyphs, I'd lean more towards "no."

The Woodsie Lord on 18/3/2007 at 00:22

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Lauryl's death was not caused by the fire. I think it's a side-effect of the glyphs. You had to be a skilled surgeon to take the skin of a body so perfectly. I have no doubt that Gamall used glyphs to "wear" Lauryl's skin, and in that process, Lauryl's soul was trapped in the Cradle. It could also explain why the Cradle remembers people. Possibly it was because Gamall made use of glyphs there. That it woke up the building.



As far as I can remember, in the letter that Dyan wrote to Garrett, it states that "Viktoria wouldst have wanted it another way".

The Order of the Vine and the Order of the Hammer hated eachother, but they did not have open warfare, or the city would be doomed. If a Hammerite caught a Pagan or the other way around, the victim would be in a lot of trouble. Not because he was from the other victim, but because he was caught.



He ran away. The death of Lauryl shocked him. I think he lived as Garrett for a while (pick-pocketing, thieving), and then he heard about how the Cradle burned down. Then he would have sought redemption with the Hammerites, and they'd be all happy.