Unkillable Cat on 6/10/2008 at 15:53

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Those guards in particular were not a problem for me, but there were plenty of other cases where Weird Guard Behavior showed itself, up to the point that I gave up and uninstalled the whole mission out of frustration. I was playing on Impossible difficulty, which was fun and challenging until the guards started "cheating".

(Warning! Mild spoilers below!)

The first case was the banter between Raputo and Antoinette. I wanted to have a closer look at the fancy clothes the guards wore, only to have the mission fail on me because they spotted me. Maybe I shouldn't stand directly in front of them. No matter, that one at least is reasonable.

Then there were the guards on the upper floors. Normally, when I clobber a guard while another is within earshot (but out of sight) they don't notice anything. These guards did. Regardless of circumstances (I tested a few cases) they would always hear the "thud" and come investigate. This at least is a positive change, as it makes the guards more sensible.

Wait, there's more. The guards doing the rounds through the bar area in the NW part of the third floor were particularly weird. I snuck in there, clobbered the bartender, stashed him behind the bar and then turned off the lights. I then tried to use that room as a staging point for ambushes to (harmlessly) take out some wandering servants. Next thing I know there are two guards and a servant in the room, looking for me. I duck and hide in the NE corner of the room...and all three of them group around me without ever finding me. They brush up against me, nothing. I stand up and knock out the servant (so that he practically falls on top of me) but the guards don't get any wiser. Finally, they give up and leave. I wait for a minute, then take a peek out into the long corridor. Noone around. I dart over to the doorway to room 302 (where I'm in total darkness) and wait for a guard to arrive. Sure enough, 20 seconds later a guard turns the corner, immediately spots me and runs me through.

I would encounter more of these Superguards as I went on. The guard patrolling the south part of the Monarch Suite could spot me through the open window while I stood in a perfect shadow...even when I was underneath the vent grate that leads to the Pearl Bar. The same could be said about the guards patrolling by the balcony on the fourth floor, just outside Cloud's room. If I had the door open and was standing perfectly still in a total shadow, they would still somehow see me.

(On an unrelated note, I fired a Moss Arrow on the ground in front of the aforementioned window in the Monarch Suite. My footsteps were muffled by the moss, but not those of the patrolling guard.)

Then there are the two guards that guard the moneychanger on the ground floor. The one that patrols between the lift and the stairs is stone deaf, which makes me think he's one of the guards that starts in the Pearl Bar. The other one is not deaf, but he suddenly decided to spend his shift standing on one of the tables in the unused room just to the west of the moneychanger.

Other problems (or nitpicks) I encountered with this mission:

# The music that's played when you're in the Monarch Suite is too loud (almost "Night In Rocksbourg" loud).

# Some of the stairs in the vents aren't fond of being climbed on. Particularly the stairs in the NW area. I think this is because they aren't made to "stand out" (i.e. being positioned on a wall that is further out than the surrounding walls) There is a set of stairs in the vents that "stands out" and give me no problems, but the others give me a 50% chance of falling to my death.

# The ground in the locker in the big bathroom on the 2nd floor counts as marble, not wood. I found this out when I stepped out of the vent there and immediately got the attention of a guard that was patrolling outside the bath.

# The menu sound effect when clicking on a button is nothing but annoying.

# Playing on Impossible sure felt like Impossible until I realised I could slaughter my way through the mission. It just didn't feel right, that I am to avoid setting off the alarm, but can otherwise butcher the guards and staff. Why give us such an easy way out?

This is a fantastic mission, introducing new things into Thief and having loads of interesting things to see and do. Listening to your teammates is also a great touch. I hope this post helps to improve the mission somehow.

Unkillable Cat on 6/10/2008 at 20:57

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OK, so you want to hear what I thought were the good points?

# You built a (digital) house from the ground up with a structure that makes sense. There isn't a single moment, a single square inch of the place that made me feel that it was put there solely for gameplay purposes. Not only is there an in-game mention that a part of the house is older than the whole, but you manage to show it as well through in-game architecture (i.e. basement only present under part of the house). The house not only has toilets as well, but places them in sensible places.

# Not only all that, but the place is HUGE. I am having a hard time thinking of a Thief FM that has so many places to see and explore. (It shows too. Some parts of the map lag a bit).

# The option of letting you choose which "job" to do. Simply having the choice is a big thing. Managing to pull it off as well as you did is nothing short of amazing.

# The communication mask is odd, but in a likeable way. Kudos for also working the zoom function into it as well.

# The footstool. A clever little puzzle that is well presented. (I'm still wondering how they crammed it where you find it, though.)

# Whenever members of the team are talking, you can hear background noises that tell you where they are. Whether they are outside, near a machine or sorts, etc. Also some mild forms of signal interference. A really nice touch.

# Speaking of the team, the voice cast is pretty good. They don't sound like professional voice actors, which is what makes it all the better.

# The new critter skins are nice. Skimpy uniforms for the female staff, house uniforms for the guards, and really Over-The-Top uniforms for the guards of the nobles. And Mr. Cloud himself, of course.

# In-game communication (via scrolls) that doesn't have anything to do with your mission, your objectives or do not contain subtle hints. Makes the place feel alive. Far too many FM's overlook this.

# (Can't remember the name of the room) The room in the SE that stretches all the way up through the house. It looks marvelous. A true feat of design and architecture. Only a handful of other FM's have managed to pull off something as spectacular.

# Room 303. 'nuff said, I think.

# The bear trophy in the small office on the second floor is well done. I jumped a bit when I first saw it. Then I turned on the light and jumped again...

And all this is just what I discovered. I didn't complete the mission, nor did I ever get into the Clubhouse part of the hotel. In short, it's all the details that make this mission what it is. It's obvious that a lot of work and effort went into the mission, and despite the flaws I mentioned in the previous post, it's well worth playing.

Anarchic Fox on 7/10/2008 at 01:40

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Thanks Cat! By necessity, most of the feedback the team has heard about MX has consisted of bug reports and similar nitpicking, and that tends to wear us down over time. So it is truly wonderful when people take the time to give its positive aspects the same refined attention.

baeuchlein on 7/10/2008 at 13:46

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Looks like that solved the problem. I've been able to download the manual at about 10-16 kB/s while simultaneously downloading the mission at 20-30 kB/s. The manual downloaded OK, while my bittorrent client apparently decided to throw away the mission after more than two hours of downloading. But since the download was running well now for at least two hours, I guess it's really the bittorrent program here which trashed the latest download. What a big, steaming, stinking piece of you-know-what.:mad:

I'm downloading the mission again. If I encounter a problem, I'll post again. If not, consider your mission done, Bikerdude.

:thumb: And thank you very much for preparing these torrents for the community!

EDIT: Downloaded successfully, after the bittorrent cliend stopped working at 318 MB. But resuming the download worked. As I said, this program is a big, ...

shadowseeker777 on 7/10/2008 at 17:23

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haven't posted in a very long time.

I wander back to thief-thecircle every blue moon to find out if anyone's still releasing epic FMs. luck would have it, Mission X was on the frontpage when I visited again.

Didn't care much for the first cosas mission, too small of a map for me to enjoy, just wasn't my thing. But this massive map certainly warrants the time you spent on it. And it's obviously not just the map, the voice talent is true acting and great recording, music really sucks you in, artwork is high-calibre and maps and views of the City have a nice continuity to what we saw in T: DS, and I was truly amazed at how much you completely changed the menus and load screens to make it a completely new game.

I also really dig how you have the ability to speak to teammates (members of a team that reminds me of Mission: Impossible teams or the like) and change the progress of the mission. Allows for the potential of replay value, not that I ever play an FM more than once (except maybe years later), but it's nice to have that option for those so inclined.

You'll obviously be inundated with praise with those taffers that still revisit thief fansites (it has been awhile since the final Thief chapter was released) and end up playing your fantasic FM. So let me be another, congrats sirs. I'm sure it'll be another long wait for the next chapter, but I'm sure I'll still remember to check back in every once and awhile.

Cheers.