thiefessa on 30/7/2008 at 18:01
Quote Posted by Ostriig
Why so defensive? You seem to be taking my dislike of the idea rather personally. Or did I get the wrong impression?
Yes, you got the wrong impression. There is nothing "defensive" in my comment, just genuinely surprised. For me, personally, I prefer to pass judgement on everything (be it a book, game, album etc) AFTER I have experienced it close hand. That way, at least I'm happy that I am offering fair critique rather than just blatant dismissal. But we are all different...
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And no, it's not at all incorrect to dismiss a game for being centered thematically around a concept you're not fond of. In pretty much the same fashion I can dismiss any football game because I simply don't care about
or for this sport, regardless of how well it may handle from a gameplay perspective.
I see, well had you just said "You don't care for wartime games etc" and explained further like you have just done, that would have been clearly understood. Instead, you said "shooting nazis was a poor excuse to drive gameplay", so obviously I commented on that statement. Nothing more, nothing less.
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I find that both modern warfare as well as WWII games seem to rely heavily on presenting you with a generic, dehumanized foe whom you aren't supposed to give a second thought about killing by the dozen, despite them being, you know...
people. You're not about to tell me that the entire Wehrmacht was a horde of bloodthristy, mentally unstable political zealots, are you? Take a look at games like Thief or Deus Ex which actually do suggest you think twice before brutally murdering some poor sod whose only faults may well be to have a shitty employer and the wrong shift for guard duty. Maybe I'm pushing the line with this comparison, but you get the point. To be honest, I normally don't have a problem with killing generic foes in copious supply, but this particular theme is highly recurrent and leaves me unimpressed. The fact that it's "inspired by this real person" and her deeds does little to make the game more attractive to me.
When did I ever attempt to try to tell you that the entire wehrmacht was a horde of bloodthirsty, mentally unstable political zealots?!! You don't need to put words in my mouth to justify further conversation so, no, I don't get your point. Also, this game is based on Stealth and I have read in a review that it is possible to complete your missions without killing anyone. Violet can also whistle to distract the enemy, ie get them to move so she can sneak to an area that is strongly guarded. So there you go. Another important point is that the game is
inspired by Violet Szabo, not
based on. In fact, Szabo never assassinated anyone, she was a saboteur.
Also, you don't need to explain to me that a game will not impress you just because the main character relates to a real person; this is your personal choice. For me "personally", I appreciate the fact that Szabo was a real heroine who bravely gave her life (captured, tortured, raped and executed) and that offers another area of depth and immersion to the game. Since finding out about Velvet Assassin, I have studied via internet more about Szabo... and I'm glad I did because I knew nothing of her, and other women like her. I like reading up about history so I was genuinely inspired.
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The other reason I have little love for this sort of games is that they don't present me with a new world to explore, or at least a new take on a world that has existed in the past. I can just flip on the Discovery channel to see a lot of the stuff they have in these games. Again, not very imaginative.
I think you're going off topic now. It's fine if you don't wish to play a game that is based on history or the past etc. No problems. I take it from that statement then that you have never played a wartime game or any game that relates to history? Or at least not history that is factual or semi-factual... only that which is far removed from fact? Only asking out of interest. I really don't care what games you prefer to play - so you don't have to explain yourself there.:)
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Unless I catch word of something entirely awesome to make me overlook what I've stated above, no, thanks. And so far I've seen nothing to qualify as "entirely awesome". I stated my dislike for this sort of games as a result of personal tastes. Doesn't mean I have to share your open view on themes.
LMAO, when did I ever say you had to like the game or even share my views? I started this thread to share news of the game and invite discussion, that is all. :cool:
thiefessa on 30/7/2008 at 18:08
Quote Posted by dethtoll
In defense of the WW2 genre:
First of all, why all the complaints about there being too many games set in World War 2 when there are hundreds if not thousands of games taking place in some generic space or fantasy setting?
...
The truth is, there's nothing wrong with the genre itself. The problem isn't that there are a lot of games with that setting, it's that way too many of them are either trash or not that memorable unless you're a die-hard RTS nerd. If you're going to complain about WW2 games complain about the relative lack of quality (but don't forget the games that DON'T suck.) But there's no point in complaining about WW2 as a setting unless you're going to complain about fantasy as a setting or sci-fi as a setting.
Exactly, thank you. :cool:
Like I already said, every game out there can be categorised into some group based on genre.
If people don't like wargames, that is fine. I just think it is a shame to dismiss any game as not worth the time of day, just because it fits into one group and not another for any reason other than personal preference. To suggest a game is going to be bad just because the enemy are Nazis (or aliens or whatever...) seems a little prejudice.
Again, I am not challenging peoples personal choices here... just their reasons for dismissing a game instantly without taking it on its own merits first.
thiefessa on 30/7/2008 at 18:13
Quote Posted by Phatose
She's got no eye glow, but core gameplay - crouch all the time, sneak up to do something horrible to them - sounds a good bit like EfBB. Not that that's a bad thing though, EfBB was one hell of a game.
Yes, indeed. COR:EfBB was an awesome game. One of my Top 20 faves of all time. :cool:
Ostriig on 31/7/2008 at 14:15
Quote Posted by thiefessa
Yes, you got the wrong impression. There is nothing "defensive" in my comment, just genuinely surprised.
Ok, my mistake, sorry.
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For me, personally, I prefer to pass judgement on everything (be it a book, game, album etc) AFTER I have experienced it close hand. That way, at least I'm happy that I am offering fair critique rather than just blatant dismissal. But we are all different...
Well, as I said, I think it's fair to draw a line regarding things you're willing to try or not. I wasn't bashing the game directly, but rather expressed my feelings on the entire genre, as a whole. To give another analogy than that with the football games - if I don't like rap music, I'm not gonna start listening to random new rap albums in the hopes that
maybe I'm gonna find one that's different and rubs me the right way.
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I see, well had you just said "You don't care for wartime games etc" and explained further like you have just done, that would have been clearly understood.
[...]
Ok, let me try and clarify this - I mever meant to put words in your mouth or anything of the sort. I simply attempted to go into a bit of detail on some of the reasons behind my not liking wartime games.
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I think you're going off topic now. It's fine if you don't wish to play a game that is based on history or the past etc. No problems. I take it from that statement then that you have never played a wartime game or any game that relates to history? Or at least not history that is factual or semi-factual... only that which is far removed from fact? Only asking out of interest. I really don't care what games you prefer to play - so you don't have to explain yourself there.:)
Yes, I have played wartime games, and got bored with them eventually. As for games inspired by earlier (much earlier) historical periods, I'm very interested in those, actually. It's mostly because they're not as well documented, leaving more room for creativty (even if that's rarely capitalized on) and also that I can't turn on the TV and see actual footage from the times of Ancient Greece, for instance.
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LMAO, when did I ever say you had to like the game or even share my views?
Well, this kinda gave me that impression:
Quote Posted by thiefessa
So, you just play the game and then you can offer critique that is more factual, valued and relevant.
With the sharing your openess to themes part, not that I should like the game, naturally.
thiefessa on 31/7/2008 at 14:23
^
Fair enough, no problems.
Text communication has a funny way of warping words sometimes and misinterpretation inevitably occurs!
It's all cool. :cool:
Anyway, just found another review from Eurogamer that people may be interested in reading:
Velvet Assassin
Preview by Steve Hill
There can't be many games where the lead character is lying unconscious in bed, drugged up to the eyeballs. As idyllic as this scenario sounds, there is more to it than sheer indolence: it's World War II, it's a hospital bed, and you are Violette Summer, a British spy loosely inspired by the tragic real-life story of special operative Violette Szabo.
Providing the inspiration for a stealth-action game was possibly the furthest thing from Szabo's mind when she was skulking behind enemy lines during her all-too-short life, and we can only speculate as to her reaction to the game being unveiled in a monolithic wartime bunker in Hamburg. Publisher Gamecock is adamant that the female character hasn't been employed for titillation purposes - a claim that is somewhat undermined when they flash up artwork of her in both a leather catsuit and a skimpy night-dress.
It's all apparently in context though, as the nightie is representative of her hospital attire, as she lies injured, enduring fevered flashbacks of her wartime missions. This is where the player takes over, as you are essentially playing through Violette's memories, a concept that gives developer Replay Studios a certain amount of leeway in terms of authenticity.
As creative director Sascha Jungnickel explains, "We took this method of storytelling in order to be able to bend the scenarios a little bit more, because it takes you away from the realism approach. It doesn't need to be totally realistic. A game that's fun normally isn't realistic. It's easier to have a strange story that takes it away from the realism without any excuses afterwards.
"When you play Call Of Duty of course it looks realistic but it's not at all. The people, how they run, they're coming the same way always. In the end the game looks realistic but it is not realistic. I think when you don't claim to be realistic, then you cannot be judged for not being. It also gives you more of a chance to work artistically, especially in terms of lighting and so on."
That lighting provides a key gameplay element, as when the on-screen Violette is shrouded in a violet (geddit?) hue, she is effectively invisible to nearby enemies, free to continue her skulking in the shadows in the manner of a fairly conventional stealth game, or as the Germans charmingly refer to it, a 'sneaking' game.
That sneaking takes place in the traditional World War II settings of France, Germany and Poland, and our brief demo finds young Violette knee-deep in the sewer network of Warsaw. Charged with the task of finding three British agents who have important information, she has to lead them to safety, or, somewhat brutally, provide them with a cyanide pill to ensure that the information goes no further.
Emerging blinking into the daylight, evidence of the Nazi purge is everywhere, with the streets strewn with furniture ala Schindler's List, and the flash of gunfire from the windows indicating a systematic extermination of the local populace. Despite the seemingly insurmountable odds, Violette has a few tricks up her leather sleeve, including around 15 different close kills, a sniper rifle, and, in a showcase move, pulling the pin out of a soldier's waist-mounted grenade with such timing that when he walks past his mate it blows them both up.
It's all good stuff, but the ingenious methods of meting out death all take a back seat to the extraordinary Morphine Mode. If it all gets too much, Violette can inject herself with morphine, at which point the action slows down, the screen goes wibbly-wobbly and she appears in the aforementioned skimpy nightie, swiftly despatching nearby Nazis. Medal of Honor it isn't, and the best explanation we managed to garner is that when Violette is dreaming about moments of extreme peril, she starts bucking in her hospital bed and the medics have to pump her with morphine to calm her down.
Either way, it's as unusual approach, and one that probably wouldn't have worked with a male character - the nightie wouldn't fit, for starters.
"For a sneaking game I think a female lead is quite a good idea," says Jungnickel, "because - mostly male - players I think will care more for a female character that he likes. She's more fragile, easier to hurt, you don't want her to die. I'd take much more care than I would of Sam Fisher, because I don't care if he dies."
One of the main criticisms of stealth games is that once your cover is blown, it ceases to be a stealth game. As the saying goes, you can't put toothpaste back in the tube. However, in Velvet Assassin, seemingly you can.
"You can re-hide," confirms Jungnickel. "You can reset every situation by running away and waiting for everyone to calm down. That's basically the mechanic that we loved in the Manhunt game, which I think is still the best sneaking mechanic of all the games. It takes a while but people will definitely calm down and you can have a retry."
As for other 'sneaking' games that Replay respect, Jungnickel says, "The Hitman game had some mechanics that I liked, especially the camouflage. In this you can take an SS uniform and run around undetected."
It's a further reminder of the political implications of developing a World War II game in Germany. However, Replay MD Marc Möhring doesn't see any conflict.
"I think we have grown up with it," he says. "If you're going to movies, if you're reading books, the historical shadow you see it every time. You see great pictures but in the end we are losing so from the political and educational aspect, we are very liberal and open here. We know what we did, and we have no problem with it, my generation and the generation after. And we're sitting on one of the buildings that was used in the Second World War. They tried to bomb this down but it was too strong."
Perversely, World War II was concluded quicker than the development of Velvet Assassin, which began in 2000 as Resistance, then Sabotage, accompanied by a litany of bankrupt publishers, and "a long story of disaster." It's finally shaping up though, and is promised for the end of this year. Morphine at the ready.
Velvet Assassin will be released in late 2008 on PC and 360.
***
Source: (
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=191227)
poroshin on 31/7/2008 at 16:03
Well this just set the game a few notches down for me:
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Occasionally you'll come across syringes in the game world, which can be used to stop time, letting you stroll up to any guard and brutally execute him.
Rogue Keeper on 31/7/2008 at 16:13
I hinted Stolen + Bloodrayne before... :p
june gloom on 31/7/2008 at 18:13
Yeah this game looks retarded.
thiefessa on 31/7/2008 at 20:30
Quote Posted by poroshin
Well this just set the game a few notches down for me:
Sure, but don't forget this is a personal person's review, after having a go at the game. The character has 15 different kill systems but it is possible to play the entire game without killing anyone, just using the skill of stealth. I guess this guy wanted to do the physical kills and thus he was explaining his enthusiasm for that.
But, yeah, there is a choice. That has got to be a good thing. Some people prefer brutal combat, some prefer stealth. Seems like the devs have done their best to please us all. :cool:
