Accignite Vos on 31/7/2013 at 07:51
This may sound like a strange question, but is it possible to have a model that shapeshifts? I understand a growing/shrinking animation might be waaaaaaay too complex for the engine, but what about a model taking another shape in, say, a flash of light? Or is the growing/shrinking thing possible? Maybe a buzzing animation that the new model "pops" out from?
Also relevant: is it possible to have a wolf model that runs on all fours, and attacks with teeth and claws? Could a player model be based on this?
kdau on 31/7/2013 at 08:58
Indeed, both are possible. For growing and shrinking, use a scale tweq (Tweq\Scale property); note that this does not work on AI. For shapeshifting (either AI or other objects), change the Shape\Model Name property, either by using a model tweq (Tweq\Models property) or by adding a metaproperty though a conversation. You might use a variety of particle effects to hide the transition, or use a RenderFlash to create a temporarily blinding light. (From my experience with promoted queens shapeshifting in "A Nice Game of Chess", it can be hard to get a particle effect to cover up the entire model without looking outsized.)
There has been work on four-legged AI in the past, but I don't think anything has ever been ready for use in missions. If you don't mind a Thief-world altered creature whose front legs are held to the chest, you might be able to build a model on the burrick base. The Black Frog campaign had dog-like beasts that I think were based on the treebeast model, but again they weren't on all fours.) As for the player, things like the player's height are hard-coded in the engine, so "all fours" seems unlikely. You can definitely create custom player attacks, though; see the FM "King's Story" for an example of a (temporarily) werewolf player character.
Accignite Vos on 31/7/2013 at 11:16
1) How much coding would be needed to mess around a bit with the player height? Would it break immersion if something the size of a dog or a wolf was at eye level with enemies, or would suspension of disbelief hold up enough that people could accept it was a dog/wolf attacking?
2) Is it possible to import a custom four-legged model with its own animations that's not based on any other model? How could I reduce polygons in a model to make it fit with Thief's constraints?
3) Would the shapeshifting model turn into another model "just like that", or could you simulate the warp and growth of a body as it took on new features?
4) How much of a headache would all of this be to code?
kdau on 31/7/2013 at 18:11
1) Nothing short of patching thief2.exe, I'm afraid, which is frowned upon. Here's Fidcal and NV's (
http://www.wearytaffer.com/NV/Tutorials/Measurements.htm) reference on the hard-coded measurements. (Note that some of them may be invalid with new_mantle.) There's a remote chance that Le Corbeau could make these configurable in a later version of NewDark.
As for suspension of disbelief, this is a world where subterranean hippo-dinosaurs belch caustic gas as a defense mechanism and bipedal praying mantises belch stinging bees. I don't think it would be too hard to sell the idea of a human-sized canine, as long as the mission was designed to make that clear.
2) (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136453) Here's an example of what has been done before (and a (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuf-BSCMuqM) more recent video). (Note that that project seems to be on hold indefinitely.) The only unavoidable constraint is the (
http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/DromEd/Properties/Creature/Creature_Type) Creature Type: any AI model has to have the same joints as one of the types on that list. Beyond that, many things are possible, but few are convenient.
For reducing poly count, my preferred tool is (
http://meshlab.sourceforge.net/) MeshLab. You'll need to try out different options in the
Filters -> Remeshing, simplification and reconstruction menu. With modern hardware, the effective poly limits aren't as low as they used to be, but be prepared to lose detail and make up for it with texturing.
3) If a model tweq is used, there are <del>five</del>six slots for model names, allowing for the final form and up to <del>four</del>five intermediate forms. (The time between each change would have to be the same.) Animated textures on some of the intermediate models might be used for extra surface detail between the model changes (e.g. changes in skin tone or hair color).
4) Shapeshifting is relatively easy. Custom AI models are mostly just tedious, once you learn the (
http://thiefmissions.com/lpg/ImportMesh.html) arcane joint-naming system. Custom motions are notoriously difficult, such that some authors won't even make small edits to existing ones.
LarryG on 31/7/2013 at 20:26
Quote Posted by kdau
3) If a model tweq is used, there are <del>five</del>six slots for model names, allowing for the final form and up to <del>four</del>five intermediate forms. (The time between each change would have to be the same.) Animated textures on some of the intermediate models might be used for extra surface detail between the model changes (e.g. changes in skin tone or hair color).
There are ways around that limit with cascading corpse linked models and model tweqs that end in slaying the object ... IIRC sliptip did something like that with some very animated pipes.
PinkDot on 31/7/2013 at 21:54
Quote:
How could I reduce polygons in a model to make it fit with Thief's constraints?
What's your current polycount? I once imported a roughly 15K tris AI model into Thief 2 (the old one - not the New Dark) with no issues. A reasonable polycount would be 4-5K, I think. Shadows are not calculated anyway, so we can get away with some decent polycounts these days.
ZylonBane on 31/7/2013 at 22:21
Best "shapeshifting" I've seen was in Inverted Manse, when some Hammerites transformed into Hammer Haunts. Simple, but effective.