jtr7 on 19/3/2008 at 03:25

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I've accounted for all four of the viktrolas. Discounting Capt. Robert Moira's message to Edwina, and the one in the Cradle, I know of no other viktrola recordings in TDS.


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The bots weren't destroyed by the mutox. They ran out of fuel and came to a halt. We are shown this happening after the mutox is done and settling as red dust. Any destroyed bots were due to Viktoria's assault and anything Garrett may have done.

There's no indication in any of Karras's closest aides' journals and conversations that they knew Karras was gonna kill every living thing.

If he had pulled his scheme off, the bots were not all going to stay in Soulforge with him, no. He was going to leave his protective chamber, help the Builder's Children inherit the earth by taking care of things for themselves, and when the Builder's Paradise was a reality (as far as he could judge it), he'd use the mutox on himself, and take his place at the Builder's side.

The mutox doesn't cling to material, it breaks it down and converts it on a molecular level, ripping the material apart and making mor of itself, and it's very fast, but horrifically and unmercifully slow to the living being getting consumed.

Who needs trees and shrubs when you have houses made of wood, next to houses made with wood, next to buildings with wooden beams and roofing materials, connected to a similar building? The mansions chosen by Karras to receive servants were chosen for their location, as well as for revenge. Filling the houses with plants, with gardens in and around them, they become bombs. Remember in the final cutscene, when Karras is in the Cathedral. There are no wooden structures in that room, nor plantlife. After the Servant enters the room and a slow trickle of mutox escapes its lips, a near-explosion of mutox blows into the room behind it like a storm. All that mutoxic power came from Viki's remains. The distance that explosion traveled to get from one end of Soulforge to Karras in the other is unbelievable. That's how a house with a lot of wood and people and plantlife would blow active mutox in a radius bigger than the estates themselves. The lawns would go, too. Truart's Estate is adjacent to the woods, so all that would go up. The radius of destruction from each of the thirty mansions overlaps at least another radius. They are arranged in a rough circle, so the center of the City is surrounded. There is enough wood in the pre-TDS City to keep the chain reaction going. Don't forget that dead plants of any kind work just as well.

Leaves, grass, twigs, baskets, cloth canopies, wooden fruit stands, wooden handrails, wooden ladders, wooden balconies, wooden signs, anything made of leather, all the wooden elements of armor and weaponry in storage or worn, anything made with sinews or bone, picture frames, window frames, seashells, wooden fences, posts, banners, banners hanging from beams, carpets, outhouses, wooden planters that may or may not have plants in them, the scaffolding outside Garrett's apartment, the buildings nearby, all the wooden stairs in the area. The mutox would rip through any wood in and on the three bridges crossing the River, and any water vessels, wharfs, docks, warehouses, netting, sails, ships that are docked, CRATES AND BARRELS, zombies, burricks, carts, buggies, horses, cats, rats, etc. The City has forests nearby. Where does all the deer meat come from? Farmlands, too. All the cheese and dairy and produce comes from somewhere. Not all the Pagan villages are in places disconnected from The City. I wonder, too, if any portal left open would admit mutox through to get to the villages faster? Holy crap, Wayside/Docks would be one of the biggest mutox storms!

Only a hurricane-like gale from the north to steadily blow it out to sea would stop it from spreading much further beyond the City limits, but the mutox from the north end of The City would be blown across the the south, so seaward would end up with the most complete anhilation.

jtr7 on 19/3/2008 at 21:13

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That's precisely why he's in his Protective Chamber.;)

Plus, if his plan had worked out, there would be no plants or organic matter for the reaction to reach him, yet the raging mutox storm might be enough to drive it into Soulforge before it began to settle into dust. But that's if Viktoria had never went to Soulforge. But since she did... Karras knew Viktoria's remains were there and never expressed any concern about it.

And I'm sure he wouldn't just hang out and wait for the time to pass. He'd continue working and praising himself...and the Builder.

And another note about the mutox and organic matter: In Eavesdropping, the necrotic mutox demonstration for Truart consumed both the Servant and the beggar, both non-plants.

jtr7 on 20/3/2008 at 01:38

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Do you want the TMA impressions, the TDS impressions, or all of it?

jtr7 on 20/3/2008 at 02:16

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No mutox, there. It's the steam and or smoke from the pipes. Before that was the welder and his forge. But I believe you are correct in this way: The colors used are a segue into the Metal Age.

Interesting, too, that at the beginning it shows a rust-colored gear, held aloft with holy esteem, and then a homeless man. The transistion places the homeless man's head centered within the gear, appearing to wrap his shoulders:

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7215/cs140001yv5.png


Now for the TDS Mechanists.

MUSmechanist: "Mechanists
Though short-lived, the Mechanist movement brought advancements into wealthy households, until both the sect and the technology associated with it came to an abrupt end. Now curiosities, these steam and lightning powered niceties comprise some of the labor saving and security devices deployed by the Mechanists."

What I gather is that no one knows much, and those who do are not talking about it, for a myriad of reasons. I don't know why, in the Thief universe of TDS, a lot of old Hammerite technology is missing. Machinery found in both earlier games. The City continues to use some leftover technology from the Mechanists. One reason for much of the Mechanist stuff to have been removed is that there are no former Mechanists willing to maintain it anymore. Another is social embarrassment. Another is personal principle and political reasons. Another is religious beliefs.

SEAviktrolanote: "Ginny- If something happens to me, if I'm lost at sea or am unable to return for some reason, then make sure Edwina listens to the message I recorded onto that old Mechanist viktrola I put in the master bedroom. It's a sort of talking machine, and all she needs to do is turn it on, and she'll hear my voice - and my farewell to her.
Yours, Capt. Moira
PS: Make sure no one else is in the room listening when she plays it. The farewell is just for her."

WidowViktrola_001000, m05v02a: "Bryant tells me you've left a message for me on the viktrola. Really, Robert, can't you just tell me yourself? That silly viktrola annoys me--why must we have that ugly Mechanist thing crouching in our bedroom? If your message is really so important then, then you'll tell me yourself at dinner. Yes, dinner, I'll have cook prepare all your favorites."

I get the sense from these two something we see in real life, where someone finds a relatively new technology creepy, difficult to learn, replacing a tradition, dehumanizing, socially degrading, and so on.

There are no other indications of how the people feel about the time of the Mechanists. The extreme makeover of The City to an almost pre-steam look and functionality may have to do with an extreme clean-up campaign on the part of the Hammers and those who have a hatred of all things Mechanist pushing to have it all removed from their view as they look at The City. We also have no reason to believe that the Keepers hadn't influenced some of it, and they may have removed special things from Soulforge before it could give anybody else any wild ideas, or be available to someone else later on.

jtr7 on 22/3/2008 at 18:50

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The Mechanists worship the gear and the boiler, so the gear being held up, and the camera rising to meet it seem to communicate the rise of the the holy gear.:p

The Mechanists (the gearheads) enslave the homeless, yes, so you've put the two together the way I meant it.

Captain Robert Moira may have had a thing for novelties acquired on his journeys, or may have picked the viktrola up back when the Mechanists were making things for the nobles, or he traded something for it. His wife Edwina was probably aghast, hearing a voice played back might have creeped her out. There's not much to go on, here, but her reaction is realistic to the way we react to, say, the Big Dog robot in the other thread. Very cool, and very creepy.