The Alchemist on 10/10/2011 at 20:09

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Fuck you and all these spoilers, I'm only half way through season 2. Also, god, his wife is acting like such a fucking bitch.

SubJeff on 10/10/2011 at 21:27

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Whatever you do, DON'T READ THE SPOILERS.

We place them in tags because we appreciate how awesome this show is and I wouldn't want to spoil it for anyone.

Scots Taffer on 11/10/2011 at 03:29

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Fuck yes.
"All right, Skylar. This one time I'll let you ask me about my affairs."



Yeah, the whole Huell swiped the cigarette without Jesse noticing and Walt somehow found the time to poison Brock are the circumstantial things I'm talking about, which seems the only likely way this got pulled off in the timeframe suggested. It's a tough one and I'm not sure if the writers didn't overly corner themselves that time. It'll be interesting to see how they address it, or if it'll be a bit of carpet sweeping at the start of s5.



Uh, the explosion happened after they left? I'm confused. And yeah, not clear on how the whole Walt takes gunmen hostage went down... it's a little bit too much of a leap from cowering in the shadows and using old ladies as human shields to coldly blowing up a drug baron and wasting hardened button men. Again, that's the only criticisms I have against what they've done at this stage - some overly neat narrative jumping.

On this note, somewhat dishearteningly I read an (http://www.avclub.com/articles/vince-gilligan-walks-us-through-season-four-of-bre,63013/) interview with Gilligan today where he says that they really haven't outlined as much as it may seem, they (smartly) are intentionally vague where they choose so that they can fill in later. Like Gus's history with the Cartel, which we found out, or his Chilean backstory, which we don't know yet ... or maybe never will. Whereas with the conclusion of s4 I thought it seemed that a LOT of thought had gone into the overarching plot strands and how they interweaved. Like Walt's history with the Salamancas perfectly setting up the confrontation with Hector and Gus given HIS history with the Salamancas, but Vince plays down the amount of forethought in plotting which makes me worried about the way s4 got wrapped up with regards to the Walt is poisoner angle. Anyway, minor quibble.

Also, interesting how Walt's face ran the gamut of emotion after his conversation with Jesse on the rooftop regarding Brock pulling through and it being "okay" that they killed Gus , as he is clearly thinking: YES I WON, oh shit the kid's alive, HOLY FUCK THAT WAS EXHAUSTING, I'm the man :cool:

And that leads to the question what will Brock have to say for himself when he wakes up? Regardless of whether it was Saul or Walt or someone else who poisoned him, surely he'll have something to say about it? That is surely when this house of cards will come tumbling down.

And in retrospect,that's what should have made it so obvious that it was Walt's handiwork all along - it was so haphazard and dangerous, where the outcomes were not at all predictable. Gilligan says that he viewed this season as a game of chess between two grandmasters - that's being overly favourable to Walt. His poisoning Brock was the equivalent of pulling your queen out unprotected from the ranks when you know that one of three possible responses will win you the game in three moves, but every other response leaves you fucked. That's Walt in a nutshell, he isn't a master tactician, but he understands the weaknesses that underlies impulsiveness. He had a strong feeling that Jesse would react to Brock's poisoning as he did as well as he felt Gus would react to Hector's perceived betrayal and need for revenge as he did. That's why he did what he did... because while in every other respect it could backfire, he knew it would work. That's Walt's strength, the ability to manipulate and exploit weaknesses but he only comes to understand them after he has suffered every possible personal indignity when faced with strength.

edit: A further note on this, this season has been purposefully shifting the audience from rooting for Walt to starting to really dislike Walt. He's always been impulsive and selfish in the past, but this whole season has been about putting him out of the limelight and watching him simmer as he was eked further and further out of the big picture... until Walt decided you know what, this is my canvas, time to paint. His actions are absolutely designed to create a final season where we are going to actively root for his downfall. We will want Walt to die by the end of this, and whether it's cancer, or Jesse (or Jesse via Mike as payback), or via the cartel, or via rotting in a jail cell once Hank nails him, we are going to be cheering it happening, because I predict we're only starting to understand the depths that Walt is capable of.



My jaw hit the floor when he walked out and adjusted his tie. I was like WTFFFFFFFF and then :o :D :(

I really liked Gus's character.







It is clear that Walt's impending disaster will be of his own doing - the only remaining threads that are up in the air (with the exception of "Where the Fuck is Mike, Stringer?") are ones that he has brought into being:
- Hank's continuing fascination with the case and Heisenberg, brought on by Walt's dinner table egotism
- Jesse's continuing poor luck with life and love via Walt, after letting his ex-girlfriend choke to death, forcing him to gun down an innocent in cold blood and then attempting to kill his on-off-girlfriend's son
- The Cartel/Chilean Backstory via the killing of Gus is entirely his goal and now that he's the King, he's going to find that people don't necessarily want you stealing the throne

The original concept of "Mr Chips to Scarface" is truly starting to emerge, season 5 is going to be the assault on the mansion I reckon. We'll re-establish with Walt as Gus and Jesse as Walt as they roll in the cash and deal with all of the above coming to bear on the business and their relationship.

The only other outside influence other than Mike is potentially the IRS investigating Ted's sudden fluctuation in funds and trying to trace its origin, or just through finding Skylar's fingerprints all over the cooked books at Beneke's. And I don't see Mike as much of an issue personally, he's a soldier, not a loyalist.

jtr7 on 11/10/2011 at 04:28

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Last I heard, they were considering making one last chapter perhaps split into two seasons. I don't think anything's official, yet.

Rug Burn Junky on 11/10/2011 at 13:24

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Just a couple of thoughts:

With Brock, I liked the symmetry/call-back to Jesse's girlfriend Jane from season 2. As bad as some of the actions are for Walter, the two moral Rubicons he crosses are both the same: "killing" someone close to Jesse, progressively more culpable. In each instance, there is something that allows you to rationalize it (Jane was just passive, Brock survived) in addition to the perceived threat. To raise the stakes next season, he'd have to do something along one of four axes: a) take a more active role in b) actually killing, c) someone more intimate to himself, who d) poses a less realistic threat. I don't see how they show Walt's corruption as complete without one heartbreaking death, and you can make a case for each of them: Skyler knows too much, Hank is investigating him, Jesse's self-explanatory. Even his son (innocent and oblivious) or Marie (I could see a shakespearian misunderstanding where Walt thinks she's going to tell Hank something) are candidates. It's wide open - fantastic possibility.

The great thing about this season is that it simultaneously felt a) so final, and b) like merely a pre-cursor. Obviously they're setting up Hank v. Walt for the last season, and they've left some interesting chess pieces on the board. One thing I liked is how Hank recuperating this whole season both leaves him in repose for this pivotal time period, and gives him motivation going forward (much like Mike in Mexico: explains why he wasn't around for the disastrous end to Gus when his presence would have either fucked up Walt's plan, or diminished Mike's aura). As weak as I've thought his acting was in the past, he stepped up a bit this season. Skyler too (Marie still feels like she's in a high school production of Street Car Named Desire).

But Hank v. Walt leaves a couple of interesing questions. Like Jesse's "He had to go, right?" on the rooftop, you get the sense a couple of times that Gus was less of an existential threat than the (misdirection) presents. Walt correctly reasoned through that Gus needed him alive for Jesse to cook. He knew that Hank was already on Gus's trail, ready to pin all of Walt's actions (heisenberg, Gale) on him. He finds out in this episode that Gus dispassionately left Salamanca alive - even if just to fuck with him. You could say that Walt was safe, or at least had time to extricate himself more slowly, carefully. I've thought that the whole season. That Gus wasn't the pure concentrated evil that Walt was puffing him up to be - he was a business man, and taking out Walt/Jesse wasn't as imminent as Walt kept complaining. The cold-blooded killing in the season opener wasn't the message that Walt received, and that was my concern with the middle of the season - Walt devolving into an hysterical ninny. His tactical impotence was brought on by his "misread" of the situation, and if that was going to cost him, I didn't think there was much pay-off. Turns out that that arc was perfect - coupled with Jesse's newfound assurance in dealing with Gus/Mike, it restructured the balance of power between the two of them. I don't think that's possible if Walt doesn't completely fuck-up for about 5 episodes in the middle. The other reason that midseason impotence is great is that you viscerally feel how much it's hurting Walt. So when he's faced with a situation where he could get out and probably piece back together a normal life - safely, meekly and with little more than a couple of thousand cash and a car wash to show for it - his ego forces him to kick the doors down to get back into the game. It magnifies the stakes and shows his motivation for doing so. All of the factors that go into the decision are there, and you know it's the wrong one, but you can see why he does it, without any obvious exposition. Brilliant.

Jesse's still my favorite character. I still see him as the most worthy character and would love to see walt's downfall result in (from?) his redemption. The whole season was a magnificent arc for him. Working through Gale's shooting with the X-Box, to the point where you can see it still register when he's involved in shoot-outs at the warehouse and in Mexico. Seeing the transferance of his father-figure issues from Walt to Mike (another reason leaving Mike in Mexico was great - it kept that conlfict in the back pocket), gave him real conflict. To me one of the highlights of the show, especially since Giancarlo Esposito came on board - has been the tense face-offs between him and Walt. Gilligan writes them very well, leaving enough subtlety unspoken, but with meaning carrying through more than the words themselves. He deliberately kept us waiting for that this season, but the whole time he does, he's elevating Jesse to the point where he can now carry those scenes - with Gus, with Walt, hell, even with Saul and the cops.

I think Mike is more than just a soldier, he's said that Gus values loyalty, and him decking Walt in the bar had an edge beyond self-preservation (don't fuck with my guy). But he also has some tie to Jesse now, and he's the only contact that Walt has that knows the infrastructure of the operation. Walt can't build that himself, so he's going to need Mike, but won't be able to trust him.

They hinted that the operation was bigger than Gus - German multinational that owns Pollos Hermanos and delivered the lab equipment. Obviously, they have to radically restucture, but I assume that there will be some players on that front getting involved.

The last piece that it feels like they're holding on to for next season is Hank and Jesse. Much like Mike being out of action preserved his aura for next season, keeping Jesse and Hank out of each other's orbit preserved that relationship. They hate each other, but I have a feeling that their interests are going to partially align next season, where each of them has to make a choice of what they really want, who they're really loyal to, and what they can really stomach. Can't wait for them to intersect now.