Wanted! Not any more... - by bukary
242 on 11/10/2011 at 23:37
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Like Japan? ;)
Even Poland.
PeeperStorm on 12/10/2011 at 01:15
Looks kinda like Calista Flockhart.
demagogue on 12/10/2011 at 01:17
Incidentally (and speaking of the Japan-Ukraine connection), I've been working on the Fukushima nuclear disaster lately and have been reading a ton on Ukrainian law on Chernobyl the last few months. So I've felt really connected to it lately.
Anyway...
Quote Posted by 242
Yeah. Many people here including me feel like Soviet times are returning, and it's a horrible feeling.
Having just read the big tome on modern European history (Tony Judt's
Postwar), the liberation of E. Europe was easily the single most exciting part of the whole story, and I've been very happy to see Russian & E European devs making some great games over the last 15 years (even flawed, they're better than most fodder out there), so this idea gets me down... It just hangs a cloud over all that.
Volitions Advocate on 12/10/2011 at 01:39
I doubt times will ever return to the true former soviet days, but from what I've read certain aspects sure are creeping back in. I'm not from the region, and I've never been there, but for some reason I've always been interested in the goings on over there.
I had a friend who served a church mission in Moscow and his sentiments mirror a lot of things that I've read. He's teaching right now in an all Russian school in the northern areas of Alberta right now (which is kind of odd), but I have yet to ask him about what his students are saying.
Putin certainly has acted quite Stalinistic at times, though without the mass bloodshed. I've never heard recently on CBC radio that he wants the presidency back, wants to swap with Medvyedev (is that how you spell it?) He is basically holding on to his power through his influence rather than by any democratic means, very Soviet of him.
The interesting thing is that I've read of Muscovites (and heard of from my friend) that don't mind the slight return of older ways. The censorship and such. I know that under capitalism a lot of ex- soviet government people have become thugs after losing their jobs (or stayed thugs in many cases i'm sure) and the Russian infrastructure isn't able to cope with it the same way the old Soviet system would have, so why complain if it means there might be some semblance of order return that they lost 20 years ago. I don't know how true all of this is. As I said, I've never been there, but it's an interesting conflict. Very Deus Ex-ey. What is worse? Democracy and chaos, or order and safety with Totalitarianism as the price?
242 on 12/10/2011 at 10:03
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Even?
Ok, even Albania.
Poland because I can understand Polish to some degree even without learning it, and I think I can learn to speak Polish relatively quickly.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Pah! Does Russia have anything as cool as Paktofonika?
Thought not.
I'm not into rap, as well as I'm not from Russia.
Quote Posted by Volitions Advocate
I don't know how true all of this is.
True pretty much.
But Ukraine is different, the electoral map of the country was devided strictly geographically on the all latest elections:
Inline Image:
http://img.pravda.com.ua//images/doc/7/1/7157a-cvet.jpgBlue colour shows areas with support for Janukovich and his "Party of Regions" ("pro-Russian" regions) and many people who long for USSR live there, though still the percentage number is considerably fewer than in Russia. Red colour shows regions with support for opposition now and Yuschenko in the past (lets call them "pro-European" regions). As you can see, the blue regions are in minority, but they have bigger density of population, so we have about 50/50 balance of rather radically different political ideologies and approaches devided geograhically. Now Party of Regions usurped all power seats in the country despite their rating now is already about 20% and changed laws for their advantage, including election law, very similar to Putin's party in Russia in maniacal fear of losing their power. Now they sentenced their most influential political opponent, we have no independent law courts.
heywood on 13/10/2011 at 01:27
I understand the Putin-Medvedev swap is a done deal, but also that Putin has proposed forming a new union of ex-Soviet republics. Is Janukovich a supporter of this union?
And some questions about your electoral map if you don't mind:
It looks like the pro-Russia regions are mostly the old Crimean Khanate. Is that area more ethnically Russian than the rest of Ukraine, and how did that come about? Resettlement under the Russian Empire? And where do the European-leaning tendencies of western Ukraine originate? Was this due to the time spent under Lithuanian & Polish control?
I'm kinda surprised by the map because I was taught that Ukraine, Belarus, and European Russia shared a common cultural/ethnic ancestry from being part of the medieval viking state of Rus, while the areas around Crimea were ethnically Tatar and Turk with Khazars to the east. I know there were several wars in that area between the Russian and Ottoman empires, and I think I remember the Crimea was a big target of Stalin's purges. So I wouldn't have expected the ties to Russia to be strongest there. The history of Eastern Europe is so confusing.
TTK12G3 on 13/10/2011 at 03:39
I'm pretty sure there will be parades in Moscow for a week if only Crimea were to be returned.
242 on 13/10/2011 at 13:59
Quote Posted by heywood
I understand the Putin-Medvedev swap is a done deal, but also that Putin has proposed forming a new union of ex-Soviet republics. Is Janukovich a supporter of this union?
No, at least during latest 3 or 4 years. He isn't democrat but he and his oligarchs are capitalists and owners of super-big businesses, like Putin, and they know very well that Putin and Russian oligarchs (who are much richer) eventually would put them down and strip them of full power.
Quote:
And some questions about your electoral map if you don't mind:
It looks like the pro-Russia regions are mostly the old Crimean Khanate.
Not quite.
Quote:
Is that area more ethnically Russian than the rest of Ukraine, and how did that come about?
Yes. They are areas heavily populated by Russians who moved to Ukrainian SSR when Soviet Union existed. They mostly settled in eastern regions were Stalin decided to build factories of heavy industry, and also even before USSR era.
Quote:
Resettlement under the Russian Empire? And where do the European-leaning tendencies of western Ukraine originate? Was this due to the time spent under Lithuanian & Polish control?
Yes. There is much more ethnic Ukrainians, and people of the most western areas could compare Soviet and european way of life for themselves.
Quote:
I'm kinda surprised by the map because I was taught that Ukraine, Belarus, and European Russia shared a common cultural/ethnic ancestry from being part of the medieval viking state of Rus,
Yes, we share a lot of common history, but a LARGE confrontation exists. You may not understand this because of the 'language barrier' and consequently different 'media space', and you call us all Russians, but there is MUCH more tension between Ukraine and Russia than between Ukraine and
any other country. The reason is the neo-imperial policy of Russia since Putin came to power and disrespect of Kyiv's independent policy.
