Edminster on 22/6/2010 at 03:12
In reading over my first post here I realise that I probably should not have used the phrase 'intended to be played' as people tend to tack on 'by the developers' whether that was the intention or not. I apologise for this, as what I meant was in fact 'playing wrong'. I understand that this has caused some confusion and I shall endeavour to say what I mean instead of meaning what I say.
Quote Posted by Lytha
One person would do these suicidal things, and die, and then comment it with: "Yeah, I thought as much. I am an idiot."
Yes, this is called 'playing correctly'. Do something, find out it is a bad idea, avoid doing the same thing. It's a basic bahaviour pattern that shows you are capable of recognising causality, a behaviour pattern that just so happens to be necessary for playing games correctly. Arson Fire's run-through of Bafford's is an example of playing Thief correctly, but not in a way the developers intended.
Quote Posted by "Lytha"
Khad, on the other hand does these suicidal things, dies, and then comments it with: "Oh fuck this awful game! The mission designer was out to get me, that sadistic bastard!!!oneoneonoenoe!!!!eleven"
You forgot the bit where he does not learn his lesson and repeats it ad nauseum. In other words, he is playing the game incorrectly.
...
You know, I can't stand behind what I'm saying 100% because Khad only has two hours of experience with Thief. All we can say for certain is that he is not learning as swiftly as many of you claim to have learned, and that may be the source of all the sand in your collective vaginae. So if whomever is a Mod here can do me a favour and ban this account that would be great, as I really do not want to delve further down this rabbit hole of psychological evaluation on a person I've never met; it's not fun and I am going to avoid doing it again as it is far too much effort for such meager gain. Besides, my interest in TTLG begins and ends with discovering how Khad copes with their Thief series.
Once again I apologise for any misunderstanding, and I hope we have all learned something from this disastrous forum crossover.
p.s. some of you are still retarded douchenozzles, as are some of us Goons (one example: me)
p.p.s. or subhuman cockgnobblers if you prefer i switch up my swearing
Koki on 22/6/2010 at 05:16
Quote Posted by Lytha
Because Loot > getting seen; and because some of the ghosting techniques aren't fun at all for me. For instance, the way how to get at the golden hammer in Cragscleft's chapel, or the golden boy in LotP.
The golden hammer is a bitch, but perfectly doable without being seen and without moss arrows(you need to lure out the priest for the pickpocket anyway).
I guess I just find it odd, the priest next to stairs to barracks in Cragscleft is definitely more challenging technically as there's no "obvious" way to lure him out, and you stealth past him instead of using more obvious solution of extinguishing the torch.
Melan on 22/6/2010 at 05:25
Just to note -- extinguishing torches is allowed under regular ghost. Now supreme...
Azaran on 22/6/2010 at 06:58
Assassins is next. Should be good right from the start. I can hear him now: "Follow them without being noticed? Ha, right!" Then he charges them...:cheeky:
Lytha on 22/6/2010 at 09:39
Quote Posted by Koki
The golden hammer is a bitch, but perfectly doable without being seen and without moss arrows(you need to lure out the priest for the pickpocket anyway).
I guess I just find it odd, the priest next to stairs to barracks in Cragscleft is definitely more challenging technically as there's no "obvious" way to lure him out, and you stealth past him instead of using more obvious solution of extinguishing the torch.
Now wait just a second. "Ghosting", which I assumed that you spoke of with "full stealth", did not involve having the AI leave their alert level 0 state at any point, last time I checked those bizarre rulesets, and after I played through the game once following these rules, decided to never do this again.
Jumping up or down or tossing a bowl on the ground to lure them out would indeed be how I handle them. But that's most certainly not ghosting, because the priest and the novice raise the arm and are most definitely alert.
To get that stupid hammer as a "true ghost", you camp out in one of the shadows and wait for some hours. The novice moves forward on spot ever so gentle. After some hours, he's at the other side of the chapel and you can get your loot without alerting anyone.
Koki on 22/6/2010 at 11:32
Well if that is the definition of ghosting, indeed pox on it. Can you even finish the game without alerting ANY enemy EVER?
Melan on 22/6/2010 at 12:30
Again, standard ghosting (
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=30310) allows 1st level ("What was that? ... Just a rat.") alerts.
Quote:
1. Highest difficulty level available and playable, usually Expert, although it might be renamed by the author.
2. No combat damage may be dealt or taken and no knockouts or kills of any kind are allowed, whether or not they show up in the final stats, with the exception of rule 11.
3. Damage taken from falls, machinery, lava, etc. is allowed as a last resort, but such damage is frowned upon and must be reported.
4. No second level alerts, that is recognition or hunting alerts, of human or non-humans AI are allowed. This includes undead, fire elementals, spiders, bots etc. Rats are excluded.
5. Garrett must not cause suicides of AI or melees that intentionally cause AI to attack each other, with the exception of rule 12.
6. No property damage is allowed. No banners cut, no doors bashed in, no things burnt or destroyed, and no broken glass.
7. The use of potions, such as speed, breath, and invisibility, is allowed but frowned upon. Such use must be reported, and a ghost success so aided must be listed as "chemical success".
8. The use of quirks of the Dark engine is allowed, but only as a last resort, and must be reported. Examples include techniques such as "banner transmigration" and "nudging," as explained in part B.
9. No loot cheats or walkthroughs are allowed -- a point of honor that cannot be enforced.
10. It is not necessary to re-shut doors, re-light torches, return keys, etc.. There is no time requirement, no Ironman type requirement, etc.. Just finish the mission clean, damage free, and alert free.
11. Any mission objective that explicitly requires that one of the above rules be broken, such as "Kill the Haunts," is OK to complete and does not bust the ghost so long as no AI are alerted in the process.
12. AI behaviors that are programmed into the game (scripts) and that are not caused by Garrett's being seen or heard, are allowed if agreed by the consensus of the ghosting community. An example is the archer fight in Life of the Party.
13. The entire mission must be ghosted to claim success.
Perfect Thief Mode is defined as completing all of the above requirements and also obtaining the maximum loot available for the particular mission.
The other modes, granted, are more strict. But the standard style is not quite as punishing as some people imagine it to be. In Cragscleft, it is hard to get a Perfect Thief result, but that's it. The rest is pretty straightforward for someone who has some experience with the game.
Lytha on 22/6/2010 at 12:44
"Kill the Haunts" is okay (even though there is a perfectly viable way around that objective), but getting seen by a spider or luring out the novice and the priest from the golden hammer is a bust.
Yes. This is why I don't ghost. :)
Koki on 22/6/2010 at 12:55
Lame rules. Especially 10. Some ghost you are, leaving open doors, moss and extinguished torches everywhere. It makes more sense to be able to cause distraction but leave the place just as you found it.
Melan on 22/6/2010 at 13:21
Turns out ghosting isn't hardcore enough?
