Midgard on 1/1/2014 at 15:29

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Been playing around with Thief Gold & Thief 2 with the latest unofficial patches (downloaded from here and that integrate the enhancement packs, I think), and generally having fun, but I still notice a couple of very annoying bugs that shatter immersion that I don't think I recall from my first play throughs of the OM (TH1: TDP). Typically, when NPCs are awoken from sleep they end up embedded in the bed, or in the floor sometimes. I also notice the occasional NPCs embedded half way into the floor standing up. Sometimes NPCs stand stock still on tables & such. Were these bugs ever fixed by official or unofficial patches? One more thing: I've yet to see a lit candle or candle flame in Thief Gold, but the candles appear to be producing light. Is this a bug? It's been years since I played the original TH1:TDP with official patches so I'm wondering if these things are normal, or at least typical.

M.

Yandros on 1/1/2014 at 16:25

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All the things you're discussing are issues with the missions themselves, not the engine. So no, they haven't been fixed by NewDark or any patches. Some FMs take the time and trouble to implement these things better than the OMs (AI who don't stand on the bed when they wake up, flames on candles, etc.)

Midgard on 1/1/2014 at 16:51

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That's too bad. But on the bright side, as soon as I finish up the OMs, I'll start on the recommended fan missions lists. Just downloaded a shit slew of them which should keep me busy for months/years. Already been trying out the first few minutes of many of them. Some great design there that doesn't seem like amateur efforts at all. And SlyFoxx is more Garett than Garett. What a streak of luck for the community to find an amateur voice actor better than the original guy. Good times to come, friends & fellow fans. :thumb:

One more thing about bugs: I also got hacked to death through a closed door when a guard walked right through it playing Thieves Guild in the OM. I heard the door bugs are a two-way sword, though. I could have hacked him right through the door if I so choose. I don't believe in exploiting game bugs though.

M.

Platinumoxicity on 2/1/2014 at 06:40

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...And you shouldn't, because loud shoes are a deliberate gameplay feature. Without them, it would be a worse game. Some floors are supposed to be louder, and every footstep Garrett makes is supposed to be audible to the player, because the contrasted range of volume gives accurate feedback, despite it not representing reality all that well. It still is more immersive than an on-screen sound meter, or "press crouch to enter sneak-mode".

Though I do admit that one improvement to the footstep sounds would be that "If I can't hear myself, you can't hear me either." -But in a game with very little body awareness, sneaking in total silence might feel a bit floaty. I say might, because personally I prefer floaty games, because I don't need to have the redundant drawbacks of operating another person's body when trying to play a game, because I already have the drawbacks of my own body to take into consideration. For example, human beings blink their eyes, but (most) game characters don't because it would be redundant because the player already does that. In my opinion, I don't even need to see my arms and legs in a game, because I know they're there, and I don't need them because I do not have full control of what their visual representations are obscuring behind them. In real life I never have the problem of my limbs being in the way when I look at things, because I automatically move them out of the way when they are obscuring my vision. A game character doesn't know how to do that, and that's one of the reasons why the absence of visible limbs can be more immersive than their presence.

But I digress. There are a lot of bugs with AI and beds in the Dark Engine. Since I am a ghoster, my pet peeve is that sleeping AIs can't hear me turning a key in a lock very loudly and opening a door, but they spring into full alertness the instant my lockpicks make contact with the tumblers. :grr:

Midgard on 2/1/2014 at 18:49

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Thanks for the links. I did install TFix & Tafferpatcher before beginning this new Renaissance of Thief gaming. The game looks beautiful, and plays like a dream, the glaring (but only occasional) bugs mentioned in my OP notwithstanding.

M.