Sulphur on 2/9/2025 at 12:14
Quote Posted by Aja
Proc gen is fine as long as the developerÂ's hand is obvious in creating a sense of flow and progress for the player althoughI admit the only proc gen game I ever loved was Hades. I tried to get into Dead Cells but found the level design boring.
All of this, seconded. I like Dead Cells in the moment to moment gameplay, but the structure is entirely unengaging to me. This is of course somewhat confounding to me, as I loved the original Rogue and games that inspired it, but I think my bugbear is that Rogue (and Angband, and ADoM, and Nethack, and
maybe Diablo I) use procgen in a way that it synergises with their overall design. I never felt (too) bummed when I fell into a monster pit in zAngband and lost all my loot and gear, because it became something to learn and anticipate in the next run, and the pace was methodical enough that I got to cerebrate over it some before I fucked up again. Roguelite platformers and action games never feel like they sync the procgen to the gameplay as perfectly - even Hades. But Hades gets a pass, because it subverts permadeath by adding a layer of narrative progress to the inevitable fucking up of the run. That's ingenious design to me, taking something that feels wearisome in a vanilla roguelike action game (dying, over and over) and making it feel like pushing forward still.
Having said all of that, I relate to JM's take on procgen in PoP. These are games where each moment tends to be handcrafted, and procgen is the antithesis of the sort of experience I'd expect from them. I'm curious enough about RoguePoP to pay attention to it, but I don't for a moment think it's going to be another Hades.
Tomi on 3/9/2025 at 14:35
Quote Posted by Sulphur
I haven't played RoguePoP myself, but I've been paying attention to it, and what I do know is that its soundtrack is a banger. It's Persian trap with a healthy dose of genre-hopping, and some serious vibe.
Yeah, the soundtrack is not bad, but I thought that some of the tracks don't really fit in the game's atmosphere and setting.
Quote Posted by Thirith
How close is
Rogue Prince of Persia to
Dead Cells, the developer's previous game? The videos I've seen make it look quite close - not quite a reskin, but also not miles away from it. However, reading about wall running and acrobatics make it sound like there's definitely more Princely DNA in the game than I thought at first.
Haven't played Dead Cells (maybe I should!) but I must say that the acrobatics play a much smaller role in RoguePoP than combat. The acrobatics stuff is fairly simple and not too challenging, and it's mostly there to spice up the combat. Of course there are all sorts of nasty traps as well and difficult places that you gotta reach, but the combat is definitely the main thing here.
Quote Posted by Sulphur
Having said all of that, I relate to JM's take on procgen in PoP. These are games where each moment tends to be handcrafted, and procgen is the antithesis of the sort of experience I'd expect from them. I'm curious enough about RoguePoP to pay attention to it, but I don't for a moment think it's going to be another Hades.
The level design in RoguePoP is procgen indeed, but I think it works in a game like this. The level design in general is just one nonsense room after another, connected by nonsense corridors that serve absolutely no practical purpose. But on the other hand, it wouldn't be a PoP game without crazy levels and silly traps and all that stuff, and procgen does all that just fine.
I suppose I'm gonna have to play Hades as well, eh?
WingedKagouti on 3/9/2025 at 16:05
Quote Posted by Tomi
Haven't played Dead Cells (maybe I should!)
<snip>
I suppose I'm gonna have to play Hades as well, eh?
I recommend both as highly polished indie titles with great controls and moment to moment gameplay. Also the Hades OST is amazing (as is the Hades 2 OST).
For Dead Cells progression is about testing your limits, both in combat and against traps. Hades (and Hades 2) is about the combat and the story. In both games the bosses are equal parts pattern recognition and skill.
Sulphur on 4/9/2025 at 10:45
Quote Posted by Tomi
The level design in RoguePoP is procgen indeed, but I think it works in a game like this. The level design in general is just one nonsense room after another, connected by nonsense corridors that serve absolutely no practical purpose. But on the other hand, it wouldn't be a PoP game without crazy levels and silly traps and all that stuff, and procgen does all that just fine.
Not really what I'd want in a PoP game, especially because the level design and layout all give the games a feeling and vibe that's very intentional and other-worldly, and procgen lacks that intentionality by design. There is the fact, though, that I also thought that The Lost Crown was not what I wanted in a PoP game -- and it's not, not
quite, but it's well-designed and worth playing for that alone.
Quote:
I suppose I'm gonna have to play Hades as well, eh?
Please do. It's quite brilliant. And as WK says, the soundtrack is a banger, but then everything that Darren Korb does generally is.
Thirith on 5/9/2025 at 15:02
Pretty far into my replay of Hollow Knight - I guess the release of Silksong is a good motivator. :cheeky: Then again, since I'll be on holiday for much of October, I might just finish Hollow Knight and then wait until I'm back before starting Silksong proper. There's not much point in getting started on a game that's likely to result in me getting lost repeatedly and then not being able to play for three weeks. So perhaps the infected of Dying Light 2 aren't quite as safe as they thought they were...
Tomi on 6/9/2025 at 09:38
I've been playing
Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 during the last couple of weeks. JRPGs aren't usually my thing, but everyone's talking about Clair Obscur right now (except for us TTLGers) and it's on the Game Pass, so I decided to give it a try.
I have very mixed feelings about the game. At times it looks and sounds fantastic, and the story and the dialogue between the playable characters can be fantastic. But at worst Expedition 33 looks just bad and there are a couple of tunes on its soundtrack that make me want to smash the mute button. Expedition 33 handles the mood changes in the story mostly quite well, except for when it tries to be humorous and "silly" - the results are often cringeworthy.
The actual gameplay felt quite fun for the first couple of hours, but when you fight the same monsters over and over again, it quickly starts to get a bit tedious. The combat is turn-based and looks quite nice, but it's all about learning the attack patterns of the enemies and getting your QTE's right. There are six playable characters to choose from (you can have max. 3 in your team at the same time) and they all have their unique skills, so in theory there is quite a lot of depth in Expedition 33 when it comes to combat. However, I found the in-game menus so unintuitive and playing around with the character builds so troublesome that I ended up using the same builds and characters most of the time... and getting on just fine.
Despite my criticism my verdict is that Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 is "pretty decent". It feels like a grand adventure with an original - albeit occasionally very weird - story. It's the gameplay that lets it down for me, but perhaps I just don't understand JRPGs. And maybe that truly is the case, because I've seen a lot of comments saying that Expedition 33 is easily their GOTY so far, and I really don't get it what they see in it.
Inline Image:
https://www.rpgfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Clair-Obscur-Expedition-33-Screenshot-053-1280x720.webpFingernail on 6/9/2025 at 10:17
I've been playing Project Zomboid for the past week or so and found it inexplicably addictive. After a few educational early deaths I now have a character who has survived over 10 days in a slightly quieter area away from town (tend to only run into groups of 3 - 6 zombies which are easy enough to deal with) and starting to think of longer term plans for when the power and water gets turned off. At some point the food I can scavenge in the immediate area and I'll need to get some way to fish or something which will doubtless lead me into greater danger as I look for the equipment needed. The atmosphere kind of reminds me of UFO: Enemy Unknown, the isometric graphics and lonely feeling with limited field of view where danger could be behind any wall or tree.
Malf on 7/9/2025 at 07:59
Quote Posted by Tomi
I've seen a lot of comments saying that Expedition 33 is easily their GOTY so far, and I really don't get it what they see in it.
I think its success is very much driven by influencers and games journalism. There's a lot about it that makes it a "Critical Darling."
Independent, French studio, made up of a mix of people new to the industry as well as veterans; efficient and inventive use of stock assets to create a unique style that feels very artsy; excellent voice acting, learning a lot of lessons from BG3 (even down to including a couple of the same cast members); and it being a Western take on an Eastern genre.
Oh, and it was also remarkably bug-free when compared to a lot of bigger releases.
I did enjoy it for what it was, but also found that past the midpoint (the first "ending", so to speak), it lost its momentum, and the gameplay, what little of it there already was (a core problem I find with JRPGs), just dropped off a cliff.
With distance, it's only served to reinforce why I don't like JRPGs. Unreactive worlds plus on-rails character and story "development". They're just visual novels with added complications.
Sulphur on 7/9/2025 at 10:21
Being that reductive about anything means that you can boil down all games with a decent amount of story and a lack of reactivity/choices to visual novels with added complications. It's not a fair take.
I got Clair Obscur 33 because I like JRPGs, and I have been saying for the past million years that developing more AA games instead of AAA is how the entire industry will avoid caving in on itself - it wouldn't be fair to say that and not support something that clearly understands what it is and the market it exists in. As for it being a JRPG - if you're not a fan of the genre, I doubt any game would change your opinion on that, no matter how well it's done.
WingedKagouti on 7/9/2025 at 11:41
Quote Posted by Malf
They're just visual novels with added complications.
If you're being that reductive, you might as well say that Visual Novels are just comic books with added complications.
The "added complications" are what helps define games as games. "Added complications" is a large part of why Thief isn't a Doom clone.
