DrK on 30/8/2007 at 13:37

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Hmm, interesting idea, still I'm not sure we'd be able to mention a best AND a worst feature in each mission. I'll give it a try :

Level 1 - Running Interference
BEST FEATURE: Scenario - to get in, clear the basement, deliver someone, and then feel free to keep visiting the mansion once the mission is done.
WORST FEATURE: 'dunno

Level 2 - Shipping ... and Receiving
BEST FEATURE: huge level, many warehouses to visit and several ways (catwalk, roof, crates, etc...). Also the fact to discover every merchants dark secrets as we visit their warehouses.
WORST FEATURE: architecture is kinda boring...

Level 3 - Framed
BEST FEATURE: to visit Shoalsgate, implying not to be seen by anyone, or knockout anyone (realistic).
WORST FEATURE: not to be seen or no knockout can be a real pain.

Level 4 - Ambush!
BEST FEATURE: huge level which allows us to visit the City, that's just so cool...
WORST FEATURE: huge city, but almost no houses where we can break in and rob... and no roof passageways !

Level 5 - Eavesdropping
BEST FEATURE: scenario - to discover a plot, by listening unoticed a conversation, and discover the bad intentions of important people. Also discovering what really are mechanist (how they create servants, etc...)
WORST FEATURE: level too small ?

Level 6 - First City Bank and Trust
BEST FEATURE: phantasm of a thief to visit a bank
WORST FEATURE: no logic in architecture, I always keep losing myself in the bank ! Reminds me Constantine's mansion...

Level 7 - Blackmail
BEST FEATURE: Benny
WORST FEATURE: I'm always bored by this level, dunno why, can be architecture or scenario...

Level 8 - Trace the Courier
BEST FEATURE: scenario - following someone, keeping unseen by the cops and bystanders, fantastic
WORST FEATURE: can't go visit the city until the end of the following sequence, which goes for ages... and again nothing much to visit apart the streets.

Level 9 - Trail of Blood
BEST FEATURE: architecture and atmosphere in the first part of the mission, in the forest
WORST FEATURE: architecture and atmosphere in the second part, in the den...

Level 10 - Life of the Party
BEST FEATURE: best level ever made...
WORST FEATURE: maybe not enough rooms or houses to visit, but only to be a prick.

Level 11 - Precious Cargo
BEST FEATURE: 'dunno
WORST FEATURE: the mechanist complex, the submarine, etc... Somehow it went over-exagerated for me

Level 12 - Kidnap
BEST FEATURE: scenario - back to the lost city, modified by mechanists, and the hunting for Cavador in the ruins.
WORST FEATURE: 'dunno

Level 13 - Casing the Joint
BEST FEATURE: atmosphere and scenario - visiting a mansion to prepare a robbery
WORST FEATURE: 'dunno

Level 14 - Masks
BEST FEATURE: scenario - back to the mansion, knowing what to do.
WORST FEATURE: almost nothing changed from previous mission, so it gets boring.

Level 15 - Sabotage at Soulforge
BEST FEATURE: technical features
WORST FEATURE: architecture and atmosphere, so boring

demagogue on 30/8/2007 at 15:09

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Why not...

Level 1 - Running Interference
BEST FEATURE: Basic alt gameplay idea a good one ... sneaking on another's behalf (without turning into a hard-to-do-well escort mission). Also, more than about half the entire mission space was entirely optional thieving (everything upstairs) ... a good idea for an otherwise small mission.
WORST FEATURE: Too linear, really (acknowledging it was just a tutorial mission), and not really about thieving, so more like a throw-away mission. And I'm not too thrilled about a mission just KO'ing people. Another variation for this style is to locate nodes the guy will follow to avoid detection and not KO'ing ... uses the Thief skills a little better.

Level 2 - Shipping ... and Receiving
BEST FEATURE: Big and involved exploration/ gameplay.
WORST FEATURE: Not as well story-driven as others, maybe? Or more like good atmosphere is hard to do for a warehouse.

Level 3 - Framed
BEST FEATURE: Pulled off the 'In the lion's den' / forced ghosting gameplay pretty well ... actually quite difficult at parts, a good thing.
WORST FEATURE: More tedious than and not as interesting as Strange Bedfellows, which played the "lion's den" card a little better with the disguise and revealed trick, and more interesting to explore "secret" areas like Hammerite dungeons than just plain old office space.

Level 4 - Ambush!
BEST FEATURE: Pure sneaking mission, always a good alt gameplay, like Midday Escape, and first half of Midnight at Murkbell, also, like the latter, good tour of city.
WORST FEATURE: Not as memorable as Murkbell. Maybe, if you're going to do this kind of mission, it's good to have good, memorable eye-candy to go with it.

Level 5 - Eavesdropping
BEST FEATURE: A variation on a pure-sneak mission ... good twist to get close enough to hear something.
WORST FEATURE: Not very memorable at all ... just not much to do here (or my memory is bad?)

Level 6 - First City Bank and Trust
BEST FEATURE: Complexity of the scenario in a big space with lots to explore.
WORST FEATURE: Somehow seemed a little watered down from pure Thief. Maybe it was the cubicles.

Level 7 - Blackmail
BEST FEATURE: Straight-forward mansion sneaking.
WORST FEATURE: Not very memorable, not much to do here, either.

Level 8 - Trace the Courier
BEST FEATURE: Pure follow/ sneaking mission ... like Assassins, T2X Train Station, good alt gameplay done in a particularly pretty setting for it.
WORST FEATURE: Assassins and Station, although didn't look as good (well, the station looked good), did it better in action. I think because it was a group, and they were more "dangerous" types, their route was to an actual destination the player wanted to go, route and walking felt more natural, etc. Eavesdropping just felt a little too unnatural, hacked or like too obviously made for the PC.

Level 9 - Trail of Blood
BEST FEATURE: Atmosphere, emotional aspects (even more remarkable for a daylight, outside mission, dromed's Achilles' heel)... the sad music, the slightly mysterious setting, and I was honestly moved and hated the Mech's at this point.
WORST FEATURE: The weird gameplay watered down the impact of the mission and didn't live up to the atmosphere (esp the second part). And it went a little overboard at points with the ghost convo's.

Level 10 - Life of the Party
BEST FEATURE: Travel by rooftops was an awesome idea, very well executed, and creative with a variety of "roof-top things" you could do. I loved the idea that you got a grandiose shot of the mansion before you entered it ... to build anticipation and set the mood. And the in-mansion part was very well constructed from a gameplay perspective.
WORST FEATURE: Actually not very easy to pull-off AI confrontations with roof-top setting. And art deco was something of a mood dampener for me in this context.

Level 11 - Precious Cargo
BEST FEATURE: Wait ... this was the one with the tunnels and big drill bits? Sort of a cool, new place to explore ... and started its own little mini-genre of FMs. The good idea from the sub part is the idea of sneaking through a very tight, enclosed space, and using your ears to listen if it's safe to go through a door way, etc. Ah yes, and the lighthouse ... one of the best missions for really great natural atmosphere. That outside area was lush.
WORST FEATURE: Yeah, a little on the out-of-left-field side. Also, MO / gameplay was a little hazy.

Level 12 - Kidnap
BEST FEATURE: A creative alt objective & gameplay that unfortunately hasn't been re-used much at all.
WORST FEATURE: Not the best use/ appropriate of the Lost City setting, jarring to see it populated, and at parts it gutted out the elements that made the setting most cool, and when it did use cool LC elements, it didn't seem to fit with the mission itself.

Level 13 - Casing the Joint
BEST FEATURE: Uhm... good idea on paper. The basic idea might be able to work very well in another situation where the casing is actually essential for the later breaking-in part. The hidden passages and library were great aspects on their own merits.
WORST FEATURE: This wasn't the mission to execute this idea. No need for this mission at all when the casing can just be combined with the next mission. It just invites boring repetitiveness with the next mission, though. (This is aside from the glaring rushed mistakes made).

Level 14 - Masks
BEST FEATURE: Really a good, self-contained mansion mission (on its own merits, as if Casing didn't exist)... and the top floor part (using bots and needing to use the roof beams, as well as the final room) was very creative. Bottom level was solid as well.
WORST FEATURE: Aside even from the repetitiveness, the bottom level sort of seemed extra baggage you had to wade through until the more fun top level.

Level 15 - Sabotage at Soulforge
BEST FEATURE: Lots to do ... also was good in story terms to play with the theme of the whole game ... science vs magic/nature, death of Karras, epic scale. In story terms, it was a good finale, and the gameplay made you feel like you were doing something epic.
WORST FEATURE: Almost pulls you out of the game because it's soo puzzle oriented, do this, do that.

nicked on 31/8/2007 at 07:56

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The worst bit of Eavesdropping has got to be that nasty "Find the correct key out of 15-odd randomly placed ones for no better reason than to make the mission last longer" objective.



In my opinion, a great way to have made this concept work better would be to have made the entire top floors off limits during casing, with the objective to be to find the secret way up. Then in masks, almost all the ground floor security should have been quick and easy to disable, allowing the gameplay of masks to enter new territory quickly.

demagogue on 31/8/2007 at 12:33

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Yeah, you could get to the final objective on the first mission, lol. What's the point?



... that you couldn't use on the night of the actual break-in if you hadn't cased it, e.g., like you witness a NPC typing in a code to open a secret door through a window, but you couldn't reach the door on your casing trip for some reason, it was inaccessible. But then it's not so believable that a huge, guarded area would be behind that one well-secured secret door, maybe, but ...

When I think about a casing scenario, the image that comes to mind is like Ocean's 11 and 12, etc ... they have to sneak their way to a place they can access, but it's still a mission in its own right, (like the building across the street, or another wing of the building you're going to thieve) where they can then witness vital things going on (like the entering of a secret code for a safe you need to rob, and maybe some other things that would help them for the job) in a building or other wing they want to enter but can't just yet ... But they will be able to enter later in the next mission, like a public building, museum, store, mansion with art exhibition, etc, where they need to wait for night when there are no guests to reach where the safe is (and you'll have the code in a readable from the mission start). But the secret code is only entered during the day, but only viewable from a place you can access the day before ... so the casing is essential, not other way without it, and there is still room for two playable, self-contained missions out of it.

Something like that is how I envision a workable casing/thieving mission set that wouldn't seem as broken as this one was.

uncadonego on 1/9/2007 at 06:38

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I think that would be a great objective in a two mission pack. One day, you must break into the building next door, go to the fifth floor or such-and-such, and use your zoom eye to observe someone opening the safe across the street (through the window, hiding in the dark), and write down the number. Next day you break into the building, knowing the number, and get into the safe.