Sir Taffsalot on 20/4/2013 at 14:10
My least favorite of the Thief games to date. Although I do not consider it the abomination that most taffers seems to. So lets show a bit of love for what is considered the worse of the Thief legacy to date.
What did TDS get right?
It might be an obvious one but it needs to be said. They nailed horror perfectly in The Cradle. The first half is terrifying and nothing even happens. The longer that nothing happens the higher the tension builds expecting something to actually happen. Once you encounter the Puppets they are truly terrifying. The way they move and shake when they get near electric lights. And just when you think you've saved Lauren and found out information about the Grey Lady, Uh-oh The Cradle remembers you.
What else did the least loved member of the Thief family get right?
skacky on 20/4/2013 at 14:20
I think TDS managed to recapture the 'creepy' aspect of Thief 1 rather well, albeit in a different way. Sure the game wasn't as unsettling as Thief 1, but it still had this charm to it. The plot was also more in the vein of Thief 1's and it was more interesting than Thief 2's in my opinion. The Pagan aesthetic was also very well done in that one, and it's a shame their speech is so ridiculously bad.
I liked the guards who carried torches, and I also liked the small light sources you could douse without using equipment. The dynamic lighting added a nice change too. I liked the more melodic score too, I think it was done very well.
Beleg Cúthalion on 20/4/2013 at 14:21
When I remember how it felt/feels to play TDS, I usually end up with the image of Garrett hidden in a shadow and me admiring the cosy atmosphere of Rutherford Castle and South Quarter. Just waiting for a while and enjoying the sight and sound of any angle of a map did it for me mostly. And then there was the tension built up by the main plot, traversing the City's streets knowing that something is there. Aside from that, I liked the ability to finally mantle onto railings, have a more sophisticated lock-picking system and AIs.
On a related note, I always admired the style of TDS's concept artworks, which often had a (what I called) dark/Gothic Art Noveau appearance to it (e.g. the museum artworks with the broad arches, the design of rooftop railings, the AI arms and armour). Hardly anything of that can be seen in the game, but I think it looks great, even though it's different from the first games and rather looks like the industrial/mechanical stuff was already embedded within the City's general appearance.
ZylonBane on 20/4/2013 at 14:23
Oh boy, this thread again.
Sir Taffsalot on 20/4/2013 at 14:42
I really liked the concept of The City hub. Unfortunately I don't think it was executed very well. Some things were good like having fences in different areas you could visit. Where it really fell apart for was that your actions in one day had no effect on the next. Eg, you could steal your landlords ransom money one day and the next day it would be in the same place for you to steal again. Nevermind the stupidity of stealing from your own landlord. Something about hand, biting and feeding.
Mr.Math on 21/4/2013 at 06:10
Most things were said already, but anyways...atmosphere, design/visual style, finally right combination between wierd/horror/magical stuff and standard thieving (too bad most missions failed to satisfy because of obvious TDS related choices).
bartekb81 on 22/4/2013 at 08:33
Visual effects were brilliant back then. And dynamic shadows...tasty.
Some missions were cool, too (Cradle, the very first mission in Rutherford castle).
Lock-picking system had its own interesting system. But I don't like too much the fact that Garrett has to stand directly in front of every lock to pick it up.
The rest belongs to details: gas bomb instead of gas mine, which is easier to use. Flask of holy water which you can simply throw instead of using it on water arrow. Ability to putting out candles simply by frobbing them.
...And yes, city hub was interesting idea but totally broken by size of its districts, overall design and the fact you had nothing to do there, except of buying stuff and selling goods.
SlySpy on 22/4/2013 at 13:52
For one thing, TDS had a really good aesthetic that was really faithful to the previous games. Since it is better graphically than the other games, it wouldn't be such a big mistake to look at that game to see how to execute the aesthetic of Thief in a newer game.
The City hub wasn't done too badly, although it could've been bigger and maybe a little more like Life of the Party in TMA. Nonetheless, the whole idea of being able to break into random houses like a common burglar, or simply pickpocketing people in the streets did bring something new to the series, even though the execution was a bit shoddy.
The plot is one of the few things that I personally think is as good as the other games, since it's basically a series of events that are directly influenced by Garrett's actions, and even has him coming under fire so to speak.
I've heard some naysaying toward this particular one, but the AI in TDS was pretty well done. The AI in that game reacted to many things, to the point of possibly being better than the previous two games in terms of AI. They notice doors being opened, they notice if they've been robbed, they notice if loot has been missing from a table, and I may be wrong but I think they even notice if you've shot a moss arrow at the floor. It had its hiccups, but the AI would definitely be a good starting point at least for a new Thief game.
The final thing I could think of would be the music. Like the AI, I personally think the ambient music in TDS was better than the previous games. It was a lot more apparent and added to the ambience without being obnoxious and in your face.
ZylonBane on 22/4/2013 at 16:04
Quote Posted by Sir Taffsalot
Nevermind the stupidity of stealing from your own landlord. Something about hand, biting and feeding.
I believe the applicable wisdom is "don't crap where you eat".
Petike the Taffer on 22/4/2013 at 19:14
My take on this :
- The story (and its conclusion)
- The claustrophobic yet intimate atmosphere of The City (of all the games in the trilogy, this one felt the most urban in its scope)
- The improved AI (they notice when I fiddle with the doors, even slightly !)
- The voice acting, sound effects quality and the ambient score
- The new lockpicking system (greatest improvement IMHO, it was finally made interesting)
- Flashbombs can't be misused anymore
- Blackjacking is harder earned than in the first two games, but makes perfect sence and feels all the more rewarding when executed well
- Snuffing out candles and candlesticks by hand (priceless)
- Gas bombs (as bartek had already mentioned, they're more practical than mines)
- Guards with torches (!!!)
- Being able to stick closely to a wall for better hiding
- Body awareness (it helped the immersion, as long as you played in the FP view)
- Better ladder climbing and some improvements in mantling
- The simpler inventory that didn't detract from the immersion
- The animated cutscenes, especially the ones that reintroduce the three main factions
- Despite not being perfected yet, nice dynamic shadows and generally okay ragdolls for characters
- Some of the main missions are among the best in the trilogy (not only Shalebridge Cradle, mind you - I, for one, love the museum mission, Rutherford Castle, the Keeper Compound and the Overlook Manor)
- The idea with the city streets as a hub and the faction system was executed half-well (great in theory, weaker in practice - particularly the faction system, which was the weakest of the gameplay mechanics overall, with fairly little retun value)
