Beleg Cúthalion on 13/2/2008 at 08:16
At least I still can show off, Pinocchio, for I haven't proved myself with modest stories yet. :p
R Soul on 13/2/2008 at 15:53
The body-awareness. They should have softened the movement, because often I couldn't tell if I was getting a poor framerate or if it was just the camera bobbing up and down. I also felt that there was no point in having the body visible in first-person view. In HL, T1/2, doom3 (which I got for TDM) etc I've never felt that the lack of a body was a problem. Especially since in TDS, despite the body, the arms don't operate doors or reach out to anything that is frobbed.
The Enforcers. The build up to them was good. When I got to that part of the game I thought "Ah, now it'll become harder". Then I continued playing and found them to be quite easy to deal with.
The City. With each section being so small, there wasn't much time spent between encountered those horrible load zones. If they'd been bigger the zones wouldn't have been as much of a problem, but then repeatedly sneaking through them just to get to another location would have become more tiresome. The hub was an interesting idea, but I think it should only have been when there was a reason for being in the city (e.g. to deal with the Hag).
Black Market Bertha. That name made me expect her to be quite fat and very bossy.
The names in general. Most of them were just normal names (Elizabeth, Julian etc). I preferred the convention of the previous games where they were similar to real names but had subtle differences.
The AI getting tired really quickly. Guards are supposed to be a little tougher than that.
The Rag-doll physics. Okay they're a good way of stopping limbs sticking into walls like in T1/2, but the AI often fell into ludicrous positions.
The frob-highlighting. It looked okay (just about) on bodies but on other objects it just made them look too metallic.
I find it interesting that most of my dislikes were not integral parts of a game that could be called Thief 3.
And I find it hard to get excited about bump-mapping in any game.
Dan on 13/2/2008 at 22:52
I really like yubetcha's idea of TDS being alone, without considering the other two games or the whole fan mission archive. Then we could see what people think of the game in an objective way.
So I'll comment DS as much apart from the other two as I can. The fact that I replayed the game is enough to show I like it. But if I must show the most negative thing in my opinion it's definitely the chopy animation of the characters and the visual bugs. DS never actualy got a patch except the savegame issue.
jtr7 on 13/2/2008 at 23:44
Quote:
I really like yubetcha's idea of TDS being alone, without considering the other two games or the whole fan mission archive. Then we could see what people think of the game in an objective way.
So I'll comment DS as much apart from the other two as I can.
It's gonna sound like I'm jumping on you, Dan, but I'm not. It's more that I'm spring-boarding off of your post. The following rant is another attempt to capture the essence of why there will always be complaints.
Although I know that you are basically saying it might be best to consider the game on it's own merits, this has the inverse effect of revealing it's biggest flaw, and returns focus on how designing it for the console-only audience compromised the story, the characters, and many other elements outside of the Thiefy puzzle-solving. The fact that anybody HAS to separate it, to think about it more objectively, IS the near sum of what is nigh unforgiveable.
Okay...
Looking at the older games, we happily forgave the majority of the flaws, because there were aspects that more than made up for them. The flaws created novel and amusing games within the games. Some of us were able to grow to love the flaws we hated at the first. SOme have still never forgiven. It's only through imagination, and fanon that respects the canon enough, that I have reduced my grumblings about TDS. I want to like it more. It's the end of the trilogy, so I accept it for what it is. Acceptance of it is not synonymous with liking it.
I hope to see a new
Thief: The Dark Age, where it was made close to the way TDS was intended, except for the console priority, and before the devs hit one brick wall after another, and distracted themselves by working on new ideas (not including the ideas to compensate for what wasn't working) instead of trying to get it to match the base-level of the older games first, then building up from there.:sweat: :laff:
Now then...
I'm considering compiling a stripped-down list of all the positive comments. If anybody can add potential items to be included on such a list, that most participants can honestly agree on, I'll gladly add it. It should include technical as well as visceral positives.
New Horizon on 14/2/2008 at 00:07
You know...I always expected Thief 3 to be called The Dark Age...simply because it made so much sense. The Dark Project, The Metal Age, and then come full circle with The Dark Age. Instead, we got...Deadly Shadows...which really had none of the flow of the original titles...in fact, it sounded completely cheesy.
jtr7 on 14/2/2008 at 00:35
Which is why I used it, NH. It is, after all, about the Third Dark Age. Number three. The younger-audience-targeting, cartoony name, "Deadly Shadows" on a game rated "M" is another divisive aspect, as well as the trident-shaped "E", instead of the "E" that hinted at a drawn bow and arrow. The acronym for TDS is inconsistent with the other two, and the correct rendering results in a smiley-face. I remember all the posts after the title was announced, that had all these ridiculous happy emoticons, and all the WTFs? All these things add up to a sense of disrespect of the great games that came before. Sure, it's petty, but the same could be said back to those who made these decisions. Why change it? I don't like the answers, either.
"Dark Project" is an odd name, but it sums up many things that game represents. It speaks of the real life story behind the game's conceptualisation, as well as the main antagonist's schemes, plus it highlights (ironic pun) a marketing point.
Digital Nightfall on 14/2/2008 at 00:51
Barring The Dark Age, which I thought was an appropriate title before the game was played through, my personal favorite title for the game would have been Thief III: The Unwritten Times.
Goldmoon Dawn on 14/2/2008 at 01:56
Quote Posted by jtr7
Okay...
Looking at the older games, we happily forgave the majority of the flaws, because there were aspects that more than made up for them.
Correct...
Again, and for *only* those that were there from the start, said aspects may not be what you've imagined. The Dark Project was a sleeper that came out of nowhere. We knew it was the next Looking Glass title, which by itself was monumental, but we had no idea how majestic the game would turn out to be. As thieves near and far banded together and mastered the Dark Project, they began to observe and abuse funny little quirks, or bugs as you people say. None of these bugs is a game breaker *cough* except SHAS. You see, we did not "grow to love the faults of Dark", we taught ourselves how to squeeze every last drop out of the Project, much like those that created it. That ain't never gonna happen with this title, friend. It just wasn't designed to be "deep".
Dan on 14/2/2008 at 02:13
It's OK jtr7! I understood what you meant. I also dream about a realy awesome new thief game from time to time:) I wanted to make people look the game at a different angle, as a game to be judged by itself, but on the other hand this IS Thief and as a fan I realy know how invaluable the game charecters, story, and so on are. Thief IS a game that is strongly related to its details, so I guess it won't be Thief if it's not Thief(if you know what I mean).
As for the positive feedback - I think yubetcha started a topic about that.
