Keeper of Metal and Gold on 12/12/2001 at 04:07
Okay, I can see that this stuff is helpful to designers to see what to avoid. It was seeming to get a bit too picky and negative, but just try to keep it reasonable <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
zacharias on 12/12/2001 at 04:20
cheers KoMaG
Ekim on 12/12/2001 at 06:17
Good, 'cause I just got another one.
Things you can fall in but can't climb out of. Please, designers, if you put chimneys on rooftops, don't assume nobody is going to get up there and take a look at them <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Take a leaf out of the T2 designs and give them small holes if they're not supposed to be dropped down.
AndreaAleotti on 12/12/2001 at 09:58
Hi.<br />Yes, very interesting material for designers. Not so easy anyway to make a mission enjoyable for all players, probably this is the greatest challenge for FM makers. I'm particularly interested to one thing: "Having the author's own sense of Thief Morality forced upon my playing style" (Silver Sorrow). Great thought.<br />Now I'm making a new mission for T2 and I don't want to divide levels in: 'normal, hard, expert' but: 'action, sneak, puzzle'. Each level has its different objectives and so different way to act. Why to divide levels by difficult? FM players are all experts! To add more elasticity to the mission I'd use one or more optional objectives.<br />I try.
Lord Alan
(Nightwalker: did I any error?)
Nightwalker on 12/12/2001 at 13:04
Nothing serious at all, Lord Alan. Quit worrying about it. Your English is excellent. <img src="graemlins/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="[Thumbs Up!]" />
Spamlet on 13/12/2001 at 06:00
I know we all dislike this one: missions with bugs so severe that you can't finish. Either that or missions with bugs so severe that finishing becomes an ordeal like having to entirely restart your computer every time you try to load a saved game (this happened to me in the second half of the "easy version" of Mage's Area I finally just gave up at the word test because of it)
I also really am not fond of exploding frogs that jump around so much that you can't hit them with arrows.
I'm ok with spiders as long as there aren't a ton of them all hanging out together a la Apache <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> in his missions it was ok however, because the exception is when I have enough broadheads (coupling these two things you can see why I never even made it up into the tree in "The Great Tree" sorry KoMaG the climbing part sounds like I'd truly enjoy it but I can't get past all those damned creatures, if it's any consolation I did finish "Spider Caves" in spite of said prejudices). <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Theef on 13/12/2001 at 17:51
This really has nothing to do with fan missions, but rather, has more to do with the Thief interface.
Have you ever been in the middle of picking a lock, and then you get up to run away, but you can't open the door because you have the lockpick enabled, so you scramble with the tab button trying to open a damn door?
Grrr!
I must concur, here, with Keeper. It's got to be daunting to create a fm. I've yet to attempt it myself, and listening to fm developers gripe about Dromed doesn't make me too keen on learning, either. I've been playing the Thief series for about two years now, owing largely to the efforts of fm makers. I get frustrated, often (I'm good with a blackjack and a rope arrow, but perhaps I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree when it comes to puzzles). But I'll not bite the hand that feeds me. People make mistakes, but when you open a fm, especially something like 7th Crystal, and your jaw drops because someone has done something the original game was never supposed to do...well, that's magic, plain and simple. If I can't do it, and I don't know how, I'm content to pass it off as magic.
And I can't apologize if I sound ridiculous. This is a great game.
My 2 cents,
-Theef
Norman Druart on 13/12/2001 at 19:32
To counterbalance the downside (yet constructive and very useful) comments on this thread, I'd like to offer up what I like in a FM.
1. I really love an involved creative storyline that, for me, is one of the major ways Thief differentiates itself from the other first person games. Its support of highly customizable plots and objectives gives the FM author incredible freedom just not seen in most other games.
2. I wouldn’t demand this from most FM’s or authors but I’m wowed by the technical innovations seen is some missions. Whether it be new skins, custom creatures, or new items, it’s great to see authors thinking outside of the box of the typical Thief style. Great examples of pushing the technical envelope are found in “The Order of the Vine” and, of course, “Equilibrium.” (To be honest, I never actually got into playing "Equilibrium" but I do admire its truly innovative design concepts)
3. A touch of humor is always appreciated. OK, maybe in “Inverted Manse” it wouldn’t be appropriate but in other missions I get a kick out of seeing a tombstone dedicated to “Kenneth McCormique” or the dromed Garrett in a prison cell.
sexypat on 14/12/2001 at 00:43
hey there
well i like playing thief so much that there isn't a lot of things that i don't like !!<br />but there is a few :
1- getting stuck in a door way even with jumping and everything you can get out of it ...you only go up or down in the door way (its been a while since i encountered this though )<br />gettings stuck in tight spaces is quite a drag too
2-see through wall or door ... i've had guards chesing me after seeing me behind a closed door ...
3-secret swith so far away from the secret door that you can't find the secret door
4-zombies ...
5-guards that needs 15 arrows to die ...
that's a bout it !! <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
[ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: sexypat ]</p>
Ekim on 14/12/2001 at 01:19
That too. A door may look close to a switch on the map, but if you have to go round a lot of corners and there are more than 2 ways you can go to begin with, it's easy to miss things.
Ranstall Keep has one of these. I only found the door on about my fourth game by a bug letting me in the exit to the secret area, even though the entrance was open.
