sexypat on 17/12/2001 at 23:33
well i don't personnaly mind that a door open the wrong way<br />i like doors i can pull to open because you can use them to knock out guards <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <br />did anyone ever tried this ?<br />you make some noise to attract the guard to open the door you're standing behind, and when he does you wait to see is head poke out through the door that can't open because you're blocking it , and BAM he's or they're asleep !!!<br /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Ebil]" />
Hit Deity on 18/12/2001 at 03:34
I usually try to make doors open away from the player, as usually I know which direction they'll be coming from, since I did design it. <img src="graemlins/shake.gif" border="0" alt="[Tsk Tsk]" /> Just my helpful nature to keep people happy. After all, that's why I build 'em. <img src="graemlins/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="[Thumbs Up!]" />
I'm glad this topic was reopened. It has been the best "What do you dislike in FMs..." thread I've seen so far.
I'm taking (mental) notes. Keep 'em coming!
Oh, and I want to apologize for saying that ladders could always be fixable: they can be more fixable than what I've seen so far, but there's almost no way to get off a ladder sometimes, no matter how its properties are set. I have noticed that going to the side sometimes helps, but only about half the time.
I try to make sure moss arrows are readily available for tile floors. I don't know how many FMs I've played that don't have moss arrows in them (or not nearly enough) and acres of tile floors. And the touchy AI thing I completely agree with; it was fine in the OM Bonehoard on the TG version, but once was plenty. There's just no reason to have people go on the alert from one little step a hundred yards away. Bad design.
Gotta go DromEd. Later.
Ekim on 18/12/2001 at 05:13
Well, hopefully the T3 engine will implement ladders differently. As they stand they're not the easiest bit to design with.
schwaa on 18/12/2001 at 05:31
I think Belboz is right about doors, they should open (realistcally into rooms not halls). They usually open clockwise also, so you can grab the handle with your right hand and push as you walk in.<br /> I think left hands have generally gotten a bad rap in society, like they can't handle door knobs or forks as well as right hands?<br /> Come on, left hands deserve a break. <img src="graemlins/laff.gif" border="0" alt="[Laff]" /> <br /> It would be a great way to showcase a rich southpaws dissorder though, a mansion full of left hand doors!!!
fornever on 18/12/2001 at 05:43
Hhmm...well, I guess I might as well take a crack at this one..
I personally don't like big expansive missions where you're wandering around a huge city scape looking for certain areas with locations that aren't exactly mapped out for you.. Of course, that's just a personal preference since I can get lost in a broom closet..
Generally, one of the things that irks me a bit is when the goals on Expert difficulty reveal information that would have been useful on Normal difficulty. Take the Thief 1 version of Ranstall Keep for example... It's one of my favorite missions (in other words, I'm not slamming it), but the first time I played it was on normal, and getting the magic stone wasn't a goal.. Needless to say, I spent a long time sneaking by and running away from the "invincible magic fireball shooting mages"... Imagine my suprise when I played on Expert and found the magic stone that allows you to kill them by walking into them :^)
dinamac on 18/12/2001 at 18:02
I for one am sure glad that all the guards are right handed. And since I'm a somewhat ambidextrous lefty I can handle being a right-handed Garrett for a while. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
equilibrium on 20/12/2001 at 06:58
One of the things I don't like in a mission is bad architecture. I am not referring to the decor, but to the floorplans. I have seen many buildings in Thief fm's that no architect would actually build because of poor usage of space.
There is a newly released T2 fan mission that fits this criticism to a tee.
I strongly endorse KoMaG's small mission contests because they force mission designers to use space more effectively.
Brian_R170 on 20/12/2001 at 18:38
One of my biggest compaints would have to be small openings that Garrett just can't seem to get through without several attempts. This is not really a FM problem as I remember having the same problem on the original Thief 2 missions (specifically, Shipping & Receiving).
Does anybody have a clue as to what the real problem is? Sometimes you can crouch and walk right in and sometimes you can't get in to save your life (or Garrett's).
Sharga on 21/12/2001 at 05:22
Quote:
Originally posted by Brian_R170:<br /><strong>One of my biggest compaints would have to be small openings that Garrett just can't seem to get through without several attempts. This is not really a FM problem as I remember having the same problem on the original Thief 2 missions (specifically, Shipping & Receiving).
Does anybody have a clue as to what the real problem is? Sometimes you can crouch and walk right in and sometimes you can't get in to save your life (or Garrett's).</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is because Garrett doesn't walk perfectly straight when he crouches, he sort of bobs up and down (which, is quite realistic). So you have to be at the lowest position to enter a very small hole (I think 4 units is the smallest you can fit through, not entirely sure). If you are too high in your crouch then you'll hit your head and won't be able to enter. so it could take a few attempts before you make it through the opening. When making a crawlspace one must make it small enough so that you have to crawl but not so small that you can't fit.
This is a very good thread, extremely helpful. Although I feel some things are a tad picky and more based on personal preference most of these are good notes to take into consideration when building an FM.
I see nothing wrong with introducing an outside religion into Thief, as long as it is done tastefully. For example, Bloodsport was all about the Order of the Raven (I think that's what it was called) and they had nothing to do with the Hammers, Mechanists, or Pagans. And I loved the way the author (Metalhead was it?) created this new order. But if someone just doesn't like it as much I guess they can't really help that, so might as well consider it while mission building.
Keep in mind: it's hard to please everyone when making a mission. For example, some people hate undead or spiders and there are plenty of excellent missions with only undead or many spiders. Some don't like huge cities, others do. Some like to swordfight guards while others enjoy being able to ghost an entire mission. Building is a lot of work, but knowing the things that almost everyone doesn't like can help to greatly improve a mission. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> So thanks.
schwaa on 21/12/2001 at 05:36
If only you could hear Garretts head "Thump" into the wall!
try looking down a little too, I've found that helps.
I do think this thread is good, it brings alot of points to mind, the opinions I try to weed out as they are just that. I think the "complaints" involving Building probs, not mission "type" are the most constructive.
My Opinion I don't like Extreme Undead Mission. There are a few I've started, and while they seemed pretty good (well designed) I just couldn't play through them. Don't mind a little undead mixed in though. I don't want to discourage anyone from making undead missions because there are plenty of Taffer's who like 'em. So its not a complaint, just an opinion.
I like the small FM contests too, small missions are fun and I think this helps to focus on plot/layout/technical aspects rather than size.<br /> <img src="graemlins/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="[Thumbs Up!]" />
