Goldmoon Dawn on 5/8/2008 at 00:45
Quote Posted by Jashin
Yeah, well, get used to the idea that companies aren't founded to die just so you can have your collection of classic games.
lmao
Yer prolly right. After watching this industry grow from nothing into what it is today, I prolly didnt know that. So, cool. I guess you win whatever it was we were doing? lol
Jashin on 5/8/2008 at 01:42
You keep talking about you and me when it's not about you and me.
It's just how it all works. You have companies that put out products on a fixed schedule to maintain stock value, and then you have people working creative or impressionable things into the game on the side. Not every game is meant to be great, but then again it doesn't have to be. Apart from technical differences I think games can only be qualified by the number of people who like them. What I like maybe you won't like, doesn't mean it's a bad thing or a bad game.
Hence, there must be something to those few games that are beloved by many as well as played by many. Both aspects are important.
Goldmoon Dawn on 5/8/2008 at 03:19
I'm sorry, it's just that I'm not comfortable with you using me as a way to let us all know how knowledgeable you are on this subject. I already know everything you've said, and have for many years now. Talk to someone else about it now.
Melan on 5/8/2008 at 09:51
Quote Posted by Jashin
And consequently fail commercially and go out in a whimper...
Just so we are clear on this: LGS didn't go out in a whimper because of the Thief Games
or System Shock; in fact, the first two sold reasonably well and turned a decent profit. This is very well documented.
jtr7 on 7/8/2008 at 09:07
I don't want to see additional weapons and tools unless one replaces another (i.e., the vine arrow replaced the rope arrow during the course of the games), and only if it ties directly into the story and mission without seeming forced, or that the game was built around the tool too much. Anything new should not make the player character more powerful than ever, unless it's compensating for the fact that the player has been handicapped by something (i.e., loss of an eye). If the player character is Garrett, he needs nothing new or more powerful, unless he is getting old and needs an extra boost somewhere.:D
If we were to get climbing gloves, I wouldn't want to experience the disappointment of the limited movement during a climb. The player character needs to be able to climb over moldings and window sills or they shouldn't be reachable at all, and the PC should be able to grip grills and pipes with a small diameter. The level build wouldn't have these placed carelessly within an area. Also, since the body can twist if the elbows aren't stuck to a wall during a climb, and the head can turn a bit more than 90° to the side in a healthy and limber person, and most importantly, since the eyes are not fixed straight ahead in relation to the skull, I'd like to look behind myself while climbing. I don't want to not be able to see past my body. The TDS limitation certainly helps prevent scene complexity errors, heh, but it's an important aspect of rope climbing I sorely missed: the ability to have a good look at one's surroundings while hanging up there.
If we were to get portable ropes again (whether its rope arrows or grappling hooks), I don't want to be unable to use at least one of my hands. In TDP/Gold and TMA, we could frob and carry, but not throw or drop. It might be a bit much to ask to be able to use the bow, or to slash with a blade (including slashing the rope). Again, the level build wouldn't carelessly place anything in the environment so it can be abused or made pointless. I wouldn't want a grappling hook that couldn't catch onto some window sills (with open windows), some pipes, beams, or railings.
I wouldn't want to see Garrett using glyphs without a damned good explanation for how he can override the failsafe, the unwritten times, the last of all glyphs (which is not the name for the key symbol on his hand), the final glyph (which is not the name for the key symbol on his hand), the glyph to end all glyphs (which is not the name for the key symbol on his hand), and without showing why he now likes the glyphs.
If he does use the glyphs, I don't want a game that doesn't have former Keepers clamoring for his help, his knowledge, begging him to restore their order. Not only should they grieve the cruel changes, but they should show signs of withdrawal. The glyphs could tempt and seduce and become an addiction. Garrett, should he get carried away using the glyphs the way he angrily wished the Keepers would have, should feel tempted and addicted--corrupted--and learn to control himself. The Keepers will have achieved ultimate wisdom if they respected Garrett and left him alone, not wishing him dead for exposing them and destroying the order, casting the individual Keepers all to separate fates. Naw. It might make a good story, but it would take genius to make a good game from it.
Neb on 7/8/2008 at 11:15
Things that I do not want from a fourth Thief:
* Garrett - His story feels complete so it would be tough to include him and not appear to be milking it just for the sake of assuring sales. I don't particularly agree that without him there would be no Thief as long as it can be realised why he worked and what he meant to the player as a meaningful bridge to the game experience. He is just as much a voyeur as yourself, patiently looking into and challenging an absurd world of corruption and self-interested parties. His primary motivations are as simple as the name of the game, while his moral standing is flexible enough for the player to control his actions any way they choose.
I don't doubt that another immersive and meaningful protagonist can successfully be written around this premise, yet if there aren't voice actors available who can really pull it off, then I guess it would be better to stick with Garrett and Stephen Russell.
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* Open World - The problem with mystery and wonder is that people demand to know the answers. This is perfectly fine as far as unravelling the plot of a story is concerned, but when we're talking about the location from which all possibilities in that universe arise, then even if done successfully there's a good chance that The City, along with all of its dark secrets, will be banished from imagination and resigned to being merely a memory.
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* Modern setting - Besides it being a silly idea, I don't fancy funding developer crack habits. :p If the time period needs to be significantly altered then I can't think of much better than around the time when The Lost City was in its prime. A fantasy Mesopotamia with steampunk trappings has a bit of appeal to it. (Hey, is anyone here into The Epic Of Gilgamesh?)
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* Loot glint - There's nothing more unnerving than the paranoia of being mugged by a gang of magpies on the way to your fence.
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* Enhanced acrobatics - If we're talking cat-like leaps then we might as well kiss those rope arrows/climbing gloves goodbye, along with well crafted vertical architecture designed to test your strategic eye for alternative routes.
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* Innovation - :eek: Lets not beat around the bush. Thief was not broken, and a decade can testify that it is still not boring either. Just as Hollywood is playing it safe by churning out seemingly endless remakes, the games industry looks like it is playing the sequel card towards the same end. Don't bother with innovation for innovation's sake unless it's a new intellectual property you're cooking up.
Eidos Montreal are working on two already established I.Ps to test the waters before they leap into new territory it seems. If they are going to make Thief 4, then I hope they play it safe by giving us something closely reflecting what worked originally rather than a gimmicky approximation carved by popular expectation.
*
SubJeff on 7/8/2008 at 14:37
Come on guys! This crappy thread is still behind That Other Crappy Thread in replies!
Vote for the slightly less (or is it?) pointless repeato-thread of mockery with your posts!!
In other news - I WANT ONLY AWESOME THINGS IN T4 AND NOTHING RUBBISH. THAT IS ALL.
Neb on 7/8/2008 at 14:50
WHY STOP AT ONLY SOME AWE?
Zillameth on 7/8/2008 at 16:45
Do you really want T4 to be aweful? :sly:
Faebee on 7/8/2008 at 18:17
wooo first post.
All in all I'd say I was pretty satisfied with T3 and would not be disappointed if a new Thief game followed the same basic pattern. HOWEVER...
No climbing gloves (far fetched, even for thief, and slightly silly.)
No instantaneous drowning. For godsake let there be SWIMMING. None of this "OOPS I fell into a lake now I'm dead business." Did Garrett forget how to swim? Did the City officials replace all of the water with sulfuric acid? What, what what?
I also kind of agree with Neb. It would be great for Garrett to play a part in the new game, but as a supporting character. I think his story has been sufficiently told.
