Dan on 12/5/2009 at 21:04
Oh yeah Twist. I'd like to seem more options getting opened for Garrett . Yes, definitely not a Mirror's Edge clone, but something like being able to set your own path trough rooftops and sewers. For example one who is petrified by the Undead can try the option of a long and difficult, but Zombie-free alternative path. Then again since the idea would most probably be to find all the loot one who wishes to do so would have to explore all the areas.
Scots Taffer on 12/5/2009 at 23:01
Quote Posted by David
Also, people posting the Thief games and FMs?
Really? That's the epitome of redundancy - I really don't think we need to know that you think the Thief 4 developers should be inspired by the Thief games.
Fair point but I disagree, I think the entire problem with "spiritual successors" and potentially "revived franchises looking to stay true to the fanbase while expanding into new ground and creating accessibility to new players" etc pay little or no heed to the mechanics, thought and expertise that went into building the older games, or at least they don't pay enough heed without compromising some of the critical parts.
Think about it, they already probably have an engine, based on their current state they have an idea of where they want to go with story and design, possibly even mechanics. They don't have a dev team fully assembled yet. At this stage we don't know if it's medieval or in the future, if it's Garrett or not even really related to it, if they've got some hardcore sound guys, if they've got strong views on AI, stealth and so on.
So, having felt burned in the past with BioShock, I feel it quite relevant to state that I feel the mechanics, gameplay, art, sound and assets made Thief the franchise it still is today and what they're looking at resurrecting.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that a fair number of devs might not even have played Thief 1 and 2.
Thief 3 was an attempt to incorporate a number of those new frontier elements:
- "open world" city
- third-person perspective
- in-engine cutscenes
- more "accessible" animations (loot glint, arrow trails)
I think you'll find that those remain points that a lot of original Thief fans aren't crazy about.
Too Much Coffee on 12/5/2009 at 23:18
Thief inspires other games. Not the other way around.
SubJeff on 12/5/2009 at 23:29
What Scots said. Both times. (But not the TDM bit).
And Mirrors Edge for movement.
Neb on 12/5/2009 at 23:36
Quote Posted by Too Much Coffee
Thief inspires other games. Not the other way around.
But then the well executed elements of those games can provide feedback for Thief, I guess.
Reliance on 13/5/2009 at 00:07
Actually, I would love to see the technology behind the body animations from Killzone 2 applied to Thief. Algorithms for limbs that react to gravity, to the force of objects (like my blackjack :ebil:), and environmental response. In the end you get a completely new animation for every kill, knockout, attack and a plethora of new animations as guards react to ineffective blows.
On a side note I am interested in something. What about blackjacking, to knock out a guard, must hit the head? Anywhere else, no matter how unsuspicious the guard is, is a failure.
Eidos has the opportunity to make this an extremely immersive experience with the availability of some impressive programming at their disposal.
5tephe on 13/5/2009 at 00:38
I think it is a given that the physics, AI, and animations will all be of a much higher quality than the originals.
But then... those features are not why we play the originals, are they?
A Writer's focus on the mindset, gameplay, and unique challenges required to be an effective thief are at the core of what makes Thief so original and powerful a gaming experience. Everything else grows from there. The missions, the mood, the artwork, the mechanics....
And thus far, the only games that have grown from that unique focus of the writers have been:
Thief: the Dark Project.
(Thief Gold)
Thief 2: the Metal Age.
And the one that no-one has mentioned yet -
T2X: Shadows of the Metal age.
Those guys and girls really injected something new into the world, while staying true to the spirit and individuality of the original maker's vision.
Dia on 13/5/2009 at 01:07
I agree in that I'd really like the devs to check out TDP, TG, & TMA. And though I truly admire the beauty, hard work, effort, and professionalism that went into the making of T2X, I still can't quell this (probably unreasonable) concern that using T2X as an inspiration might make the devs think that a Thief game should always be rife with hordes of the undead. (I said it was probably an unreasonable concern, okay?) Other than that, T2X would be a great example to use as an inspiration for graphics, sound, architecture, etc.
Taffer36 on 13/5/2009 at 01:20
I think we can be more creative here.
Grand Theft Auto 4! - No no, I'm not saying that Thief 4 should focus on going on killing sprees. But GTA4 teaches a valuable lesson (I'm sure the other GTA's do as well): AI reaction is important. When done correctly, seeing AI react in unpredictable yet realistic ways to player actions can have amazing results. We've played the old Thiefs to the point that the AI have, in a way, become robots. It's important that the player forever think of the AI as organic beings, they need to react to everything and exploits should be exploits for a reason. Goodbye frustration dance!
Call of Duty 4 - This game teaches the true power of scripted ingame events. Yes, Thief is a dynamic and nonlinear game and shouldn't be a cattleshoot of predetermined scenes, but telling story ingame can be much more powerful than relaying emotion to a cutscene (it's obvious that I'm going to mention it but the bit where you crawl around the post-nuke city is one of the most powerful moments in video games, and it was ingame!). And it reinforces immersion!
Halo - Yes yes, I know. But Halo did something incredible as well - it took a magnifying glass to the concept of "encounters". Sure, Thief is a nonlinear game but that doesn't mean that some sections can't be planned out yet keep that dynamic aspect we all crave. Don't just place guards around willy nilly, be mindful of their effect on gameplay. Come up with interesting new combinations of AI's and patrol patterns. Give the player a problem and have two ways in mind that they can solve it, but always create the gameplay systems to allow for infinite solutions!
Fafhrd on 13/5/2009 at 04:06
The biggest thing is that Eidos Montreal has to remember not to fall into the 'Saying Yes to the Player' Player Empowerment trap. The Thief series is, at it's core, about taking away the player's power, making the player feel vulnerable and forcing the player to play in a manner that they may not initially be comfortable with.
The trick will be keeping that spirit of the game, and hopefully the gaming press remember that's what it's supposed to be about. Otherwise we'll see a repeat of Mirror's Edge, where the press will turn on it after release and declare it 'too frustrating' and knock down it's score because they couldn't finish every level the first time through.
