io organic industrialism on 10/9/2013 at 22:19
Hey Rope Arrow, it's been forever since I've posted on here, but I just wanted to say I enjoyed your post. I can definitely relate, myself being an introvert (though perhaps not as determined to avoid people as much as possible as you, I never got it down to a science ;) ) I can also vouch that Urban exploration is a lot of fun even as an adult, if you are willing to take a few risks and accept the consequences if you do get caught.
I also just wanted to assure you that there is nothing "wrong" with you, we are all different in our own unique ways. Based on your descriptions of your determination to avoid people at all costs, I almost wonder if you could be diagnosed with (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome) Asperger's syndrome. Don't take this as a bad thing, though, it's just a way of describing people who have a different way of thinking. It's not necessarily a disability or disease per se.
I also wanted to comment directly on one of the responses in this thread:
Quote Posted by Psychomorph
There are forms of asocial-ism and introversion - weak introversion and strong introversion. Rope Arrow, you're the weak introvert (take no offense please) and Garrett is a strong introvert (he's fiction, but his character traits are not).
What does it mean? A weak introvert does not feel as comfortable about it as he may pretend. In fact he pretends (smile, don't offend, remain unnoticed), feels guilty, small and weak. A strong introvert is the one who embraces it, who trusts only himself and rather sees himself above others (thus distances himself from them), does not feel helpless and does not feel the need to fit in, to pretend, to not offend or to be of service to anyone, let alone society. Garrett is absolutely a self confident introvert. He embraces it as his strength and frankly, don't gives a f##k.
I've been an weak introverted child myself, but as I grew older I sought to transform myself into a strong introvert, which I believe I am for the most of the part (still learning, have my weak moments still). I accepted that I will never be an extrovert and I don't want to be.
I'm fascinated by strong introverts like Garrett. Silent professionalism. Calculating intelligence. Cunning if need be.
As you say, there are those predators out there, who see through you and spot your weakness and turn it against you, but your weakness is not your inner self, it's false behaviour.
My advice is simply to take the statements from Psychomorph with a grain of salt. If it is useful to you, then that is fine, but remember this is just one way of perceiving the world, of perceiving introverts. I've been interested in Psychology for a long time and I've never heard these descriptions, and a google search doesn't come up with much about "weak introverts" and "strong introverts".
Some of us may have sensitivities and vulnerabilities, but that doesn't necessarily make us "weak". Perhaps just depending on the situation. If you live your life compassionately, honestly and transparently, then even when you are knowingly exposing your vulnerabilities to people, you won't have much to fear.
Regarding the "predators" out there... Yes, they are out there. They are known as Psychopaths or sociopaths. I have had a weird fascination with the subject for the last year or two. The main thing that distinguishes them from the rest of humanity, is that they feel no empathy and no sense of remorse or guilt. They don't all turn into serial killers, but even the non murderous ones can be manipulative and dangerous. A controversial question that's been on my brain lately has been "Whether or not Psychopaths could even be considered human". But I digress... I highly recommend the books "The Psychopath test" or "The sociopath next door" for more info on this subject.
And finally I just wanted to recommend a book that changed my life, changed the way I look at things, which I tend to recommend to young folks who remind me of myself at that age (I wish I had read the book sooner!). It is called "Flow" by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.
From wikipedia:
Quote:
his theory that people are happiest when they are in a state of flow— a state of concentration or complete absorption with the activity at hand and the situation. It is a state in which people are so involved in an activity that nothing else seems to matter
What I learned from the book, however, is that "Flow" can be harnessed in many different areas of your life... Not just playing video games, or learning a musical instrument... But practically anything, if you are willing to put the effort into it and finding that balance between skills and challenge.
But perhaps the biggest revelation to me from reading this book is this: What we choose to pay attention to shapes how we view reality.
For examples (not from the book, just my own examples):
Consider an alcoholic or drug addict who has lived a rough life on the streets, going in and out of jail... After years of this, he may have the sense that "the world is out to get them", "things never go his way".
Consider another person, a "ghost-hunter" who is fascinated with legendary ghost tales, looking up pictures of ghost sightings online, etc... Many times at night he will look around dark corners of his house or town and think he sees ghosts in flashes of light or visual anomalies.
Consider yet a third person, perhaps a Buddhist monk or a Christian nun who has dedicated their life to morality and bettering themselves, and also fostering a sense of compassion towards other people. They spend most of their time doing good deeds and helping other people.
Now let's have a little thought experiment with these 3 people.
Imagine that there is a dark abandoned alley-way somewhere. There's not necessarily any real danger in this place, since it's just in our thought-experiment. But I guess there is always the possibility of danger in any unknown dark alley.
Let's take each of our 3 fictional characters above, and place them each in the alley-way one by one, and see how they react, shall we?
The drug addict will probably be the most familiar with this scenario. He hears a noise in the corner of the alley... Immediately his heart begins racing, he thinks it is a gangster out to get him for drug money.
When the ghost hunter hears the noise, he may become excited, thinking that the noise was caused by a ghost. He might go over to investigate it. He might even think it was proof that there really was a ghost.
The monk/nun upon hearing the noise might be concerned that there is someone hurt. They might go check it out to make sure.
But in each of these three cases, the "world they live in" subjectively is very different. Do you think the drug addict or the monk is thinking about ghosts at all? No. Do you think the ghost hunter is thinking he needs to check if someone is hurt? Probably not....
This is just a simple example to show how our subjective ways we perceive the world can be very very different. There are many thousands/millions more ways to perceive the world than just these three examples. Potentially 6 billion... But you could probably narrow it down into a hundred or so "general outlooks" that people tend towards having.
But it is also important to consider WHY the 3 people in this example have such different outlooks. And the answer to that is
because of what they chose to pay attention to in the years of their lives leading up to the event in the alley-way.
So.
I'm about out of time to keep typing right now and I have probably already blabbed way off topic too much, but I'm confident that you're intelligent enough, Rope Arrow, to understand what this means in the context of your life... And I hope this unsolicited advice has helped you in some way.
You're welcome to hit me up in a PM if you want to talk more, I'll try to keep checking the ttlg forum for at least a week or two after this post to see if there are any replies. (I usually only come on here about once a year).
Peace
-Scott
Gloria Creep on 12/9/2013 at 21:43
I totally understand your post here.
For me: I can't kill a fly if I wanted to in real life, but when I'm IN the game: I'm extremely cautious, strategically prepared, indulgend and as impulsive :devil:
And of course very much using my BJ and other weapons. :ebil:
I've been playing Thief from the start in 1998 and am replaying T3 right now.
I tested a lot of Fan Missions and I am proud I could and that the author's trusted me with their FM's. :cool:
I would advise you to play all of these beautiful FM's ....1000 + I gues?! :thumb:
:angel:
fett on 14/9/2013 at 12:02
Seriously, the most fascinating post I've ever read on TTLG. Just....wow. Awesome.
bedwine on 19/9/2013 at 05:09
A fascinating thread indeed. I think most Psychologists and Sociologist would agree that a form of "disassociation" has affected our young friend "Rope Arrow". Garrett is a loner. It is a tough job but somebody has to do it.
gaijinalways on 29/9/2013 at 15:04
Quote Posted by bedwine
A fascinating thread indeed. I think most Psychologists and Sociologist would agree that a form of "
disassociation" has affected our young friend "Rope Arrow". Garrett is a loner. It is a tough job but somebody has to do it.
I can agree with Rope Arrow's sentiments. There are times when I would prefer to be alone (I'm married, too), and I don' often seek out others. It's a balancing act for some people, and some people who love to interact with many types of people don't understand people who would rather not interact with certain types and even at times with people they know.
Thief's exploration tendencies are fun and this idea of forbidden areas is a constant in real life too. Sometime it is social behavior such as women not being allowed to go topless (but men can), but other times it is that fine line between private and public areas.
bassoferrol on 30/9/2013 at 03:09
I nearly learned that I could be not myself.
TaffinOut on 16/2/2014 at 22:50
Great post Rope Arrow! I can relate to alot of what you discussed...sneaking around as a kid :sly: avoiding unnecessarily exhaustive interaction as an adult. Although from what I gathered, compared to you, I would consider myself quite extroverted. A very personal thread indeed, I feel like I've spent a few weeks getting to know from that single post. The part about the racetrack made me grin.
I revisited Thief for the first time since the late 90s a few months ago, because of a nostalgic childhood memory I suddenly had of Lord Bafford's manor one day. Vaguely remembering the hilarity of the hammerites religious quibbling I decided to jump back in for a mature look at what these lunatics were forever rambling on about. That is my favourite aspect of Thief - the fanatical delusions and miscellaneous absurdity that characterize the City's persona; From the order of the hammer to Karras' utopic vision of its future. The dialogue in itself cuts me up everytime: from the obnoxious guards ranting, to the hopeless townspeoples pleas for help, drowned out by Karras' mad ravings being blasted over the loudspeakers day and night as you feverishly bash them over the head and steal their shit :joke:
I play this game to escape for the time being from my real life concerns about corruption and public deception, but the more I play it, the more I think about real world surveillance. Of course, this kind of non-violent robinhood lifestyle is impossible today... but if I could go back a couple hundred years with this valuable insight, I'd be taffin my socks off :p
gkkiller on 17/2/2014 at 12:03
Let me just say first and foremost that this is a really well-written post. So you're new to Thief? I am as well, and I recently finished my first Thief game (Gold). I do have a thread where I discussed my own opinions on it, if you'd like to take a look.
I'm also interested in writing, like you, and I like the way you put across your opinions. Imo you'll be a great addition to the Thief community, and I hope you have fun here :)
Muzman on 18/2/2014 at 06:57
I have nothing really useful to add, so Ill just chuck in the nitpick: there aren't really any monster slaying bits in the first Thief (except for a couple of objectives). It's all in your mind.
zil on 21/2/2014 at 21:49
Hey Rope Arrow!
Thanks for a great read and a great post. I must say that lots of what you said resonated with me since I could remember similar events from my life. Thieving in it's very general sense is strongly associated with introverts.. and I don't really know why, but I'm going to try and find out anyway.
Of course, hiding and being in places in itself is tense. And that is something that I like.. going to places where I shouldn't be. It's thrilling and when I was small, I used to search for that tension when I was visiting my aunt and cousins every summer. There were 3 of us boys and we just went exploring in the countryside, to barns and other buildings that were sort of abandoned. Even though there were no people, it filled us with this enormous adrenaline and feeling that I kind of miss now, almost 15 years later. And I think most of this is to do with being in an imaginary world that so many young kids create. It's a world that you would love to be in and to live in. The fantasy kind of stuff that kids live in. As you grow older, you just want to experience it yourself.. and young girls then play with dolls but us, boys go and search for a thrill. Some play war-games with toy guns, some play racing with toy cars.. and some just go, alone, wandering and imagining a Thief kind of world where you must not be seen. For me and my cousins, a lot of this stealthy exploration also revolved on the thematics and stuff you see in a strategy game called Commandos. There, your objective is to silently infiltrate enemy lines to reach your objectives. That is very similar to Thief. So yeah, for us introverts, the kind of guys who prefer to be alone, I think we also prefer to play alone and this need to live inside this imaginary world where you must not be seen (an 'objective' that's been set by none other than you).. I suppose it comes from our childhood.
And why is it such a thrill to 'live it'? For me, it's about atmosphere.. ever since I was small, I loved darkness. I loved it when our family was driving wherever in the darkness, because I could sit in the back seat and just gaze outside, reveling in the atmosphere of lights and the moon and the stars. Stuff from 'romanticism', a bit. Maybe it's related to my zodiac sign, the scorpio, who are known to be tense, dark and gloomy figures who never show their true colours. But as I said, all of this falls under 'atmosphere', which is just so enticing with its mysticism and not really knowing what is out there, since in the dark your sense of sight is greatly reduced and you can mostly rely on hearing, smell etc. That is why so many people are afraid of the dark, but us taffers we just embrace it, cause it is a bit challenging.. and sometimes scary.
On top of all of it, in Thief games, especially the first two ones, this atmosphere is omnipresent. And the allure is heightened massively (for me) by the music. When I listen to the track 'Precious Cargo'.. ahhh it is perfect. The hollow sounds in the caves.. it is so captivating and does the job of depicting the sense of loneliness (again, a thing for introverts) so well, also being in this world rules of which are so different to ours is just remarkably enthralling..
So these are my thoughts right now.. I had a lot of ideas about what I was going to write here and thus I hope I've not missed any, but perhaps it gave some insight into my view on this! Happy taffing! :)
PS: THIS is perfect: (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TjGN-RaTro)
