What is "consolisation" and why does it exist? Or Simulated Skill v Player Skill - by SubJeff
Koki on 4/2/2011 at 13:59
Guilty! [spoiler]Though not as guilty as the guy who calls Deus Ex a "PS2 underrated gem". What the fuck?[/spoiler]
Sulphur on 4/2/2011 at 16:11
Quote Posted by Koki
I never did, I don't have a console :rolleyes:
Who's asking about you? I'm asking if whomever mapped the pad controls actually tried playing the game with them. A thought experiment for something like this is a pretty but useless thing by itself unless there's empirical data to prove it works.
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The select PC nerds being what, basically entire Europe(especially the eastern parts of it)? (S)NES might have been huge in USA because it has close ties with Japan, but in Europe it was far from being the primary gaming platform.
Fair enough, I have no idea about Europe's gaming history, though I'd find it hard to believe that even Atari didn't gain a large foothold there while it was still big.
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Right, half-lying on the couch few meters away from the screen in the living room and hunching 50cm away from the screen in your room with headphones on. Barely any difference.
Yeah, barely any difference apart from the fact that it's far better playing on a bigger screen and a good 5.1 set. I've played the console versions of Dead Space and Far Cry 2 and CoD 4 as well as the PC versions, and apart from the pad there was no immersivity taken away from either when you turn the lights off and play at night.
Seriously, what the fuck has a couch got to do with anything - if I played PC games with a wireless keyboard and mouse on my couch, what would that do to my gaming experience? I'll tell you: zilch.
I don't hunch into my screen, I prefer sitting straight at the desk. If that's your preferred way of using a PC, good luck to your spine.
@Briareos: Here's the thing: a TV in your bedroom connected to a console is just as asocial as a PC. If you were playing RDR without your friends around and you had no other pressing activities, would you still have turned it off to go chug a beer with someone because the console somehow forced social contact on you?
Well, you wouldn't have been playing it anyway because you don't have a console. So yes, your opinion is skewed towards one platform because by your own admission you've had an extremely stilted and limited experience with them in comparison to PCs.
Apart from that, I'd buy the 'console gaming isn't as deeply engaging as PC gaming' (not your words but what you seem to be implying) thing if console games were a completely different and more casual beast than PC games, but they share far too many games, game types, and experiences in common for that to be true.
Koki on 4/2/2011 at 16:51
Quote Posted by Sulphur
Yeah, barely any difference apart from the fact that it's far better playing on a bigger screen and a good 5.1 set.
Hahaha.
Sulphur on 4/2/2011 at 16:56
You're so adorable when you laugh like that. :)
Renzatic on 4/2/2011 at 17:34
Quote Posted by Koki
That's what they said about Wiimote. Hell, I said that about Wiimote. And look how it ended up - silly gimmick, if it's in the game at all it's obvious the game was made for the pad and "ported" to the Wiimote later. How is Sixaxis going to be any different? And Kinect? I remember when it was called EyeToy.
For most games, you're right. The Wiimote was horribly underutilized by companies just wanting to make a quick buck. But then you have the games that were designed to take advantage of the Wiimote. Like Metroid Prime 3. After playing it, I came to think of the thing as a great analogue to the keyboard and mouse for 3D movement. Then you have Zack and Wiki, which showed me gesture based controls could actually make a game more fun, provided they're done properly. Resident Evil 4? Night and day difference with the Wiimote. I no longer had to do that "move left, move up, move left a little more, slightly adjust just a tad...almost...almost...there we go, head shot" thing I do with analog sticks. All it took was a flick of the wrist, and PERFECTLY AIMED KILL SHOT. Just like playing with a mouse.
So just because most companies half-assed the Wiimote, doesn't mean the potential isn't there. I was actually glad when I saw Sony ape the design almost down to the fine details, because it means consoles are moving away from the dual analog scheme. All it needs is a little more fidelity, and a nice, ergonomical design, and I'd just about be willing to forget the keyboard and mouse.
ZylonBane on 4/2/2011 at 17:56
Quote Posted by Chade
One aspect of this debate that has always puzzled me is the supposed desirability of a precise control scheme. I doubt that the ability to master dumb strategies like "aim better" makes the game more intelligent.
The only possible context in which this statement is not profoundly retarded would be coming from someone who thinks of games as semi-interactive entertainment and not as GAMES.
"Bah, who needs precise controls? Just let the game aim for me! Where's my beer?!"
inselaffe on 4/2/2011 at 17:56
Exactly, the wiimote is the best you'll get on a console for fps control. When playing on my friend's one years ago i could see the potential and that was only in the silly minigames in wiiplay and also pointing on the menus - it's really very accurate and swift. How can the playstation move thing compare though? i haven't really seen one but i was under the impression that they were almost like two "nunchucks" and so not actually that good? or at least lacking the important pointing functionality of the wiimote?
The fact that the wii has been shunned as a traditional games console by it's audience and most importantly, third party developers does not help matters in pushing for improved control across consoles for fps style games. Nintendo hasn't really helped with that either, but they did put out some traditional games that utilised it well. It's just sad how it went, but even on the n64, 3rd party support wasn't so good, and then on the gamecube it was even worse - really awful, and not due to hardware reasons either - the console was far better than ps2 yet a load of games were only ps2 and xbox released. Why is this?
Jason Moyer on 4/2/2011 at 17:59
Quote Posted by Sulphur
The entire scheme? How easy was the game to play though? I don't think having lean
and combining that with two levels of crouch/prone would have been very workable on a pad.
Isn't that pretty much what Medal Of Honor (the new one) has? Or was the "more leaning than Thief" thing PC exclusive? It had standing/crouched/prone and leaning in 8 directions.
Renzatic on 4/2/2011 at 18:17
Quote Posted by inselaffe
Exactly, the wiimote is the best you'll get on a console for fps control. When playing on my friend's one years ago i could see the potential and that was only in the silly minigames in wiiplay and also pointing on the menus - it's really very accurate and swift. How can the playstation move thing compare though? i haven't really seen one but i was under the impression that they were almost like two "nunchucks" and so not actually that good? or at least lacking the important pointing functionality of the wiimote?
Supposedly it's just as good as the Wiimote, if not a little moreso. For instance, Dead Space 2 for the PS3 comes with a Move enabled port of Extraction. Everything I've read says it's equally as fun and easy to play there as it is on the Wii. No differences. No added problems.
Problem is, Dead Space 2 itself isn't Move enabled. Which is a huge shame, because if it were, it would be, by and far, the superior console version.
ZylonBane on 4/2/2011 at 18:40
Quote Posted by inselaffe
Exactly, the wiimote is the best you'll get on a console for fps control.
No, it's the best for
aiming on a console. It sucks for FPS control because in FPS games, aiming and looking are the same activity, whereas with a Wiimote the developers are forced to cook up some alternate method for turning your head.
Apparently the recent Wii Goldeneye doesn't even use Wiimote aiming.
