jtr7 on 9/2/2006 at 22:41

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For me it's not just design, sound, etc., as great as the sum of the parts is, it's also the fact that I'm not usually forced into having to have lightning reflexes coupled with precise hand/eye coordination. I have neither of those. I LOVE being able to hide where I won't get caught and staying there until I'M damn good and ready to move on. I LOVE not having to pause the game while I take a break, use the restroom, or get a snack, and having the sounds of that world filtering through the house, keeping me in the mood. Standing in the kitchen and hearing the guards saunter by, muttering inanely over those ambients and music, is one example of what separates these games from the rest, for me.

Thief is a liberating experience for me. I can play "Clear a level of people and things," or I can play "You're not a thief, you're an assassin!" I can save my spot before I try something new or tricky. I can change my playing style on a whim, go crazy with all those broadhead arrows we don't have much use for, and quickload to keep the mission objectives.

The controls, especially with custom key-bindings, are not confusing to me. I'm better with Garrett's bow in Thief, where I can take my time, than with a shotgun in most shooter games, where I lose critical finesse due to shaky muscles that overshoot or fall short of the intended muscle movement. My proudest sniping moment in Thief: Metal Age occured when I was out behind Building A, in Shipping... and Receiving, above the crates, on the catwalk near the West(? Left-hand side of the map, assuming North is up for that map)-end of the mission. The guard that patrols back and forth, West to East and back, was my target. I had to aim at the sky to hit him while he walked toward me from Lord Porter's. He was only about 20 pixels tall, looking more like a blob than having any definition. His legs were cut off at the bottom of the screen while I aimed. I killed that AI. No other game I've played (though, admittedly, there may be another out there) let me feel that empowered. My other favorite moment happened during the first time I played Metal Age, same mission. I'd figured out what to expect from slow-fall potions, figured out the blackjack, and most of the patrol-route of that same guard. I was on a catwalk (again), but on the other end of the map. With the blackjack in hand, I ran and jumped off the catwalk, gulped a slow-fall potion before descending, and knocked the guard out while airborne. I haven't been able to duplicate it yet, but I've got to do it once more before I die.:p

Domarius on 10/2/2006 at 03:19

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I think, above all else, its primarily the interactiveity (as demagogue described) since your interaction with the world is fairly complex and almost lifelike - whereas standard FPSs interaction are limited to dodging and shooting.

After that - the quality of the content is what keeps you immersed, and I believe it's as follows;

The visuals. Even though the engine is old, the lighting does everything it needs to, from warm fireplaces, dingy dungeons with torches on the wall, or soft blue moonlight streaming in over the room's contents. Dynamic shadows aren't present, but static ones are, and they do most of the work for immersion. And the light that hits objects is done well, you can see the colour and brightness of the light on a guard as he walks under a hanging lantern or pass a torch flame.

The sound engine is very sufficient - the EAX reverb efffects set the atmosphere quite nicely, and you can tell what direction a sound is coming from in 360 degrees (with quad speakers) and how distant it is.

Then of course, the way the visual and audio quality is used - the architecture is awesome, and the distant echoy clinking of chains and ominous muttering will be in my memory forever.

Goldmoon Dawn on 11/2/2006 at 01:00

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One thing that a lot of people overlook is the way LGS got going. They had a decent pedigree, working with Richard Garriot in the early days. In fact, I was saying a lot of the quotes from Thief back in the 80's, because of games like Might and Magic and Ultima. I don't think a lot of people realise that the atmosphere of Dark Project was partially the realisation of old crpg ideas. The Hammers were obviously somewhat inspired by Ultima's "Guards". A lot of the old english sayings were developed throughout the M&M and Ultima series'. Thief: The Dark Project was no accident. These people knew exactly what they had on their hands and crafted it perfectly. They milked every last drop out of it. Truly a masterpiece. *sigh*

Elentari on 11/2/2006 at 10:44

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Wow, second post. I'm turning talkative. Hah.

Anyway, I have to agree. I think Thief is like reading a good book, one with a story that pulls you in and keeps you until you finish it. But there are other things as well. As has been said, the lighting, the sound, the interaction with the world. . .the fact you can explore in your own time in your own way, the fact that on *most* levels there are two or three ways to do the same thing. For instance, to break into the bank in T2, there are at *least* three different ways to actually get into the building to start with. There isn't a 'better' way, its whatever works for you, or whatever you want to try.

I've played a lot of games and none have caught me so completely as Thief. I started with T2 which a friend lent me (and after me playing it 8 times in a row and being so slow to send it back to him, he finally just gave it to me. . .lol) then DS, and now FINALLY I am able to play 1, although, I still have to buy a copy on disc so I can keep it. (Bought it from the download a demo, then pay for it - only to discover they give you a 3 time activation code and you can't put it on disk and reinstall freely. grrr. 25 bucks wasted) On no other game have I ever found myself leaning over in my chair just so I can see around that corner, only to realize too late that I really do need to push 'that' button and make Garrett lean. . .my own leaning won't do anything. Never before have I played a game that has actually had me so engrossed that I actually fly out of my skin when something happens. (My mouse is complaining, I smacked it on the desk today when a zombie nearly scared the living daylights out of me. lol) T2x was awesome in having me so freaked I could nearly stand to play, yet I just *had* to know what happened next.

I think it is more than 'just' a first person shooter. Here you have to think, you have to plan what you're going to do (or make a mad dash and hope - but mad dashes only rarely work). There are many ways to come at a puzzle. Even when you can't kill an AI, you can lure it out and make it fall into the water and drown itself, or lure it into that hole, or get them fighting each other (spiders vs pirates. . .my favourite. lol) For a 'violent' game, you can actually get away with very little violence towards other people.

Plus the world - well the city at least - is decently fleshed out. You come across inane conversations that mean little to your plot. You find notes and letters that suggest things are going on around the city that have *nothing* at all to do with you - Or Garrett, rather, although as a woman playing my responses are more mine than Garrett's. The guard's taunt of 'come out and face me like a man,' only earns him a snicker that the poor idiot doesn't know woman when he sees one - and there's whole dynamics of things going on without you, that of course you get to see.

I know in DS, I loved it when I was out in the streets, and would get stuck trying to figure out how to get past a guard, only to have an entire street brawl between the Hammers and Pagans errupt in front of me, wiping out a good 20 of them. An event that had *nothing* to do with us, and I have never seen again since, but was a nice illustration on the relations between the two groups. (of course all the murders were pinned on Garrett, but thats another point. lol) The AI of both T2 and DS are - while predictable - still random enough to keep replaying interesting. I have not played a game that was the same twice. (Maybe T1 as well, but I haven't gotten through it once yet. . .so

For me, its all these little things that make the game so ungamelike and more like a book, a movie, or perhaps, in a sense, like a holodeck. While the graphics really are mediocre and the ai limited and a wee bit stupid, there is enough to make the imagination fill in whats missing and you can forget you're sitting at a computer playing a game. At least, until that mouse come crashing down on your fingers, or you fall out of your chair from fright. :laff:

jtr7 on 11/2/2006 at 20:36

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HA... Ha ha haaaa!:laff:

So true. It's even more hilarious when you watch somebody else play, especially when they are so immersed they're nervous and twitchy.
:joke: