Dia on 11/2/2006 at 22:20
Quote Posted by jtr7
...So true. It's even more hilarious when you watch somebody else play, especially when they are so immersed they're nervous and twitchy.
:joke:
I've never watched anyone else play, but after five years of Thief games & FMs, even my cats know better than disturb me when I'm playing (I have a tendency to lash out when startled - followed by profuse apologies on my part). Of course, there are those prankster friends who take great delight in arriving unannounced and quietly sneaking up on me, just to see how high they can get me to jump. Record so far: last prankster had to peel me off the ceiling. Total game immersion is such great fun! :cheeky:
Taffer36 on 12/2/2006 at 01:42
The world in Thief feels real. In other games I always know that everything is set up specifically around the player. The world revolves around you.
However in Thief you never intrude on the world (except for those times that I go on a rampage and take on every guard in sight). The world is going on whether you take part in it or not. Every AI is minding their own business and doing what they would normally do. AI's don't spawn around you just because you're coming close and the game needs to throw some gameplay at you.
Also, there are no cutscenes during the gameplay. I hate this in other games. They completely disrupt the immersion (same with the T3 loading zones). Oh! Thanks for pulling me away from the world for five seconds just to show me something utterly pointless.
The inscrutable po on 12/2/2006 at 04:07
Quote:
it's like reading a good book.
So many good points being made but on this of course there are so many readables sometimes that it is almost a book, or at least a short story.
kamyk on 12/2/2006 at 09:50
@Elentari
That's cool that you are playing TDP. I started with TDS, but really at this point I would have to say that TDP(G) is my favorite one. The only thing I really liked about TDS more was that with the exception of the Load screens, my immersion never stopped at all. I know it is sacrelige to some of the older players, but I loved going through town to get somewhere. That and The Cradle, of course. Nothing better. But I mostly found TDP(G) more engrossing for some reason. I think it might have been that TDP(G) felt more like a continuous story, whereas TDS felt like a lot of unrelated missions sometimes.
@Dia
I hear you about the prankster friends. The first time I played the cradle, a friend was watching, and took great delight in ruining my immersion. Every time she saw me tense up, she would destroy my suspension of disbelief by grabbing me and shouting boo, or some such. I asked her to leave my room very quickly, and not very politely. Fortunately for my gameplay experience, it was about the time I first got to the attic that I told her to piss off. I have been playing Fatal Frame lately, and I won't even let her come near my room... It is such a letdown when people spoil the immersion for you.
After seeing several people mention earphones, I might have to try that out. Is it better than 5.1 surround? If so, I got a new sound card for nothing.
Dia on 13/2/2006 at 14:17
Quote Posted by kamyk
...After seeing several people mention earphones, I might have to try that out. Is it better than 5.1 surround? If so, I got a new sound card for nothing.
I think it's a matter of personal preference. I prefer headphones because they block out any other noises going on in the house, add to my total immersion & seem to provide more intense focus. I love it when I'm lurking in the shadows, listening to footsteps approach, and hearing the sounds travel from one ear to the other as the character approaches & passes my hiding place. I still use my speakers occasionally, but due to various complaints from family I only use them when I'm alone in the house for any length of time (still prefer headphones overall).
qolelis on 13/2/2006 at 16:51
I always use headphones when playing Thief. That way I can filter out all the noises that don't emanate from Thief, which makes for better immersion.
Back to the main subject:
Generally, I agree with all that has been said, but let us not forget the story elements! The story is emphasized upon already from the start with the briefing and the objectives continuously maintain this emphasis. I believe that the (dark) engine helps builders to focus on the story. The story can also be completely different from mission to mission, just like in real life. Through readables and dialogues we get to know the game characters, which for me means that I feel like they are real people (in shooters, the game characters are just canon fodder). I often feel a little guilty when I steal from a poor family for example or from someone I find sympathetic. The slow pace lets us explore our surroundings and game characters more, but also lets us ponder more over the consequences our actions might have (unlike in shooters where you generally have to shoot first and think later... or not think at all even).
Another thing is that Thief OM/FM builders generally care to put in letters and such that will let us get to know the game characters, so it's not only the game itself that makes for such unique immersion qualities; it's also thanks to the builders.
Snake on 13/2/2006 at 17:24
Great central character, great plot, great atmosphere, great game. I think its a credit to the game that I can still play it seven years after its release and not take notice of the dated graphics.
There was really no other game like it when it was released and there still isn't anything quite like it today. I think the mini-plots which occur in some missions through reading the scrolls and books also add to the uniqueness of the game. I could go on praising Thief for pages but I won't, just play it instead!:thumb:
sparhawk on 13/2/2006 at 19:41
Quote Posted by Elentari
On no other game have I ever found myself leaning over in my chair just so I can see around that corner, only to realize too late that I really do need to push 'that' button and make Garrett lean. . .my own leaning won't do anything.
Aparently you never played Doom I and II. :) When I played this it happend quite frequently that I tried to look just over this edge. Of course Doom was not really 3D, so you could not look in any direction as nowadays. :)
sparhawk on 13/2/2006 at 19:51
Quote Posted by Aja
What is it about these games that give them such a unique quality?
Personally I think it is the hunter and prey element that makes it so unique. Currently I play a game "Sniper Elite" which is similar in that regard. Normaly a first person shooter is pretty straightforward. You walk along and if something moves you try to shoot it before it gets you. You don't really have to anticipate much, you just react to what you see on screen. With Thief this is quite different. Because of the gameplay, you need to anticipate what your oponents will do before they do it. We all know the experience when they are searching for you and you cower behind that corner and hope that they wont get you. Such situations don't exist in FPS games, because there is no machanics for this. Thief is a bit like a good chess game. You build up your trap and hope that the oponent doesn't realize it before it springs. There are people who can't see that chess can be extremly exciting if you value this slow builup of tension. IMO this is the same in Thief. The tension is not gotten out of instant action, it is take from slow buildups. You observer the enemy while trying to stay out of sight, you stalk him and try to net get caught by him and when the time is right you take action. In Sniper Elite it is pretty similar. Even though it is a WWII shooter, you have to stealthily traverse the area. If you are good, you can find the enemies before they spot you, and take them out. When I played it through I will try to ghost it, but I'm not sure if this would be possible, but at least the gameplay mechanics is such that it might not be totally out of the question. That makes it much more interesting, because I know, that when I get caught, it was not because the enemy overwhelmed me or my trigger was to slow, but because I didn't pay enough attention to my surrounding. And also the AI is pretty good. It happened frequently that I watched an AI, then it went out of sight, and it went another route behind my back. And while I was still watching where I thought it should be, it got me from behind. :)
I guess this is one of the games that a Thief fan can really appreciate. :)
To get back on topic though. I think this is what makes Thief so interesting, and at the same time unappealing to a big crowd, just like chess will never catch on as a mass game.
Goldmoon Dawn on 13/2/2006 at 19:55
Quote Posted by sparhawk
Aparently you never played Doom I and II. :) When I played this it happend quite frequently that I tried to look just over this edge. Of course Doom was not really 3D, so you could not look in any direction as nowadays. :)
*sigh*
Reminds me of the golden age of late 1980s crpg's. :ebil:
EDIT ~ Well said, sparhawk.
