Luna on 14/2/2006 at 19:59
I think it is because you can approach the game from so many different angles and always find a way to beat it!
tpwdct on 15/2/2006 at 03:32
In what other game can you decide to let a guard live because of the sympathy you feel for his naive responses to solicitations from a prostitute (TMA - Ambush). In other games, you can't really decide to pass someone by, knock them out, or let your blood-lust get the best of you.
There is a lot more character depth in this game. You can read diaries, journals, love notes, work instructions, or paranoid rantings and get the sense of realism that has been mentioned earlier in the thread. You can listen to the guards muttering under their breath. You can listen to workers gossip about drunks at a party. It's a level of detail that goes far beyond the visual.
I'm curious to know if any of the people here who mentioned they liked the interaction with the environment (I do, as well), found that a game like Hitman II (I haven't played the first one) had the same effect. I didn't get into that game at all, but it's in the same genre, IMO.
Lastly, Thief is art. Just look at Constantine's mansion in TDP (or better yet, TDPG). I couldn't muster the creativity to create something like that if I spent my whole life trying.
I'm new to the forums. I played TDP back when it still took a long time for a quickload, TMA and TDS soon after each came out. I just started playing the series again and I'm glad I found that a community still exists for the entire series.
Domarius on 15/2/2006 at 07:14
Quote Posted by kamyk
After seeing several people mention earphones, I might have to try that out. Is it better than 5.1 surround? If so, I got a new sound card for nothing.
Well earphones block out everything else, for extra immersion, but stereo headphones are NOT better than surround IMO, because hearing from all directions is far more immersive. Plus of course the sound quality is better - more bass etc.
Best thing would be one of those good quality surround sound headphones - the bass range is amazing for something so small, and you really can hear in all directions.
LittleTaffer on 15/2/2006 at 08:48
Quote Posted by tpwdct
I'm new to the forums. I played TDP back when it still took a long time for a quickload, TMA and TDS soon after each came out. I just started playing the series again and I'm glad I found that a community still exists for the entire series.
Rightly said, comrade. I'm amazed that the community is still thriving and growing. When I last put away Thief because I couldn't handle the zombies (and still can't, goddamnit), I thought that in a few years, even after T:DS, the community would have waned.
It's so lovely to talk about the games again, and nobody EVER gets talking about every aspect of it, even if it's been over a hundred times!
Dia on 15/2/2006 at 14:04
Quote Posted by LittleTaffer
Right... It's so lovely to talk about the games again, and nobody EVER gets talking about every aspect of it, even if it's been over a hundred times!
Don't forget all the new members that arrive in TTLG daily, Little T. For them, everything is new and wonderous (I'm reallly not that new; been visiting here on & off for five yrs.). I think when a newer member brings up an old subject (sometimes from a different aspect or pov) it makes older members harken back to their initial thrills and enjoyment of the Thief games. I've noticed that when a new member starts a thread on a subject that's already been discussed in the past, even though some older members may get all cranky about it, eventually most of us join in for the discussion. I for one, love knowing that I can come to TTLG & share my feelings & thoughts about the Thief games with people who feel the same way.
I love this place!
Yametha on 16/2/2006 at 03:06
Exactly! Why shouldn't we revisit old conversations? I can see how it would get annoying if a conversation happened every moth, but complaining about conversations years apart seems a bit much!
ponyboy on 16/2/2006 at 03:47
Headphones, yes. Dark room, yes.
Nothing I've ever played has immersed me like this game has. The moody medieval atmosphere gives "flesh" to the worlds of my adolescent D&D binges. And the sound effects breathe life into the creature. I've spent a lot of time cringing in shadows as guards approached and receded, turned, muttered ... and all the while the hair is up on the back of my neck, and adrenaline is pumping, as I wonder if I'm about to get sprung.
Someone mentioned being able to do things at your own pace, and I agree. Being able to stop and lurk in the shadows, waiting for the right moment, or at least for the panic to subside ... that's a very human way to approach something. Because you can sit there and go through emotions and doubts and planning on your own, human, time scale, you are experiencing the game as closer to reality.
And the fact that the missions, even after repeated play, never seem linear to me is also wonderful (cause or effect? I don't know).
The Drunken Orc on 16/2/2006 at 15:31
I just realized that I haven't posted here in ages!
Which is funny, because to me the Thief games exemplify good game design, and every time I boot one of them up, I'm pulled right back in again.
I think the element that most differentiates Thief from lesser games ( ;) ) is choice. The built-in difficulty levels can seriously change the timbre of the game and the approach that needs to be taken (no killing humans, huh?), and the game is well enough designed that the player can quite easily set alternate rules for themselves and still succeed.
The first time I played through TDP(G), I stacked unconscious guards up in mountains, and I was constantly running low on water arrows. It was only when I went through the entire game Lytha-style that I realized how well-designed the levels really are. It is entirely feasible to play through the entire game without blackjacking a soul, and with minimal item use.
Or, of course, you can simply snipe the guards dead from a hundred paces away. Your choice.
Another thing that I really appreciate is that Garrett is frail. In most stealth sneakers, being discovered is meaningless - you can snap yourself some necks or put a few bullets into the offender, and you're done. Thief is the only game that has ever had me tense up in a dark corner, butterflies fluttering about my stomach, hoping that the guard passes me right by - I know that my life can easily get painful otherwise.
Finally, the atmosphere. The sound, and the interplay of light and shadow... and the creepy oddities that pop up here and there. Who else remembers climbing up onto the third floor of Constantine's manor and thinking, "Uh... alright. Garrett... what the hell have you gotten yourself into?"
Ah, good times. *nostalgia*
I think I'll play Thief tonight.
sorcerykid on 1/3/2006 at 09:44
Like some people have already said, what makes Thief so immersive are all of the sensory aspects that are integral to the gameplay. Together they add to the belief that you are really transported into a completely virtual world. This is not just evidenced in the game engine itself, but the realism of even very small details in the surrounding world -- like text passages from diaries and chants recited by Hammerite guards.
Rather than just developing a central plot to move the player forward, Thief puts you right in the middle of an entire dystopian world that has seemingly existed for centuries before. You can follow every mission at your own pace and using your own discretion. You are free to explore quitely using deception and cunning or to jump right into the action with a full-on attack.
Thief is a combination of RPG, FPS, Strategy, and First Person Sneaker. So there's not just one style of gameplay. You might run up and take on several guards in a swordfight (if you are so daring), but then you must face the consequences of that assasination. Or, when no is looking, you might climb up to a roof and snipe the guards with a gas arrow hoping your cover is not blown by the nearby archers. Or you might carefully infiltrate the complex from the back door using the plans your contact provided, assuming they are still accurate.
Unlike other games that define who you and your objectives from the onset, Thief is left open-ended. This allows you to observe a completely autonomous, life-like society unfold entirely on its own around you with a sense of mystery about what the future holds. You are free to learn about the conflicts developing between and within various factions of religious zealots, corrupt noblemen, and power-hungry demi-gods all the while still maintaining your total obscurity -- or even contributing to the mischief! You can even take time to investigate the lives of ordinary people that have no principal relation to the storyline.
Because Garret is not a hero, this affords the player a great degree of freedom to act on any number of emotional cues, like expressing sympathy for less fortunate characters. Throughout the game, the player is made to feel that one's actions may have very tangible consequences. Best of all, rarely is any mission straightforward nor commonplace. Just when you think you've accomplished your objectives, you are forced to problem solve a new set of circumstances.
Throughout the game, you must make critical even life/death choices and sacrifices that enable you to gain experience and mastery of your thiefing skills, your weaponry, your environment, and your adversaries all the while defining your personal vision of what role Garrett, the protagonist, really plays in this masterpiece.
In these ways Thief has incorporated all three different styles of game play, and they all work well even in combination (as long as they don't conflict with the mission objectives).
Just some of the aspects of gameplay that stand out most to me:
The lighting - Having a light gem is an amazing concept. When used properly, a player can assess exactly what visibility conditions he is faced with at any moment from subtle shadows to brightly lit corridors. The intregration of darkness and the importance placed on movement to avoid detection adds to the overall suspense and thrill.
Artificial intelligence - When Thief first appeared it had a well thought out object-oriented AI and SR system that controlled everything from behaviors to events. NPC characters could be customized to follow routes, and upon becoming alerted could seek out foes using logic and deduction. During their pursuit, they could even express their emotional state using a variety of vocal and physical expressions that make them all the more lifelike.
Sound propogation - The ability to listen is one of the central faculties of being a good Thief. Different surfaces may conceal one's footfalls, which was a revolutionary concept at the time. Being able to detect accurately where every sound is originating and what kind of danger it presents emphasizes a more precautionary style of play.
Background music - While many games feature no background music or music that is mostly detached from the focus of the game, Thief relies on minimalist, dark ambient themes as atmospheric backdrop, progressing seamlessly throughout the entire mission. In effect, these mere sounds can inspire a state of suspense and awe as if one truly tied within the story.
Long live Thief! :)
Domarius on 1/3/2006 at 13:13
Usually I like to be succint but that was nice to read because it was like kind of poetic about Thief.
You know the whole concept of the gameplay being so dynamic that you create your own exciting scenarios rather than them being scripted was the primary idea behind this game, the first idea, even before it became a stealth game. It's just awesome that they acheived this goal so well.
