What is the worst mission I've ever made.... - by uncadonego
uncadonego on 13/10/2019 at 12:23
....and why.
Just the title won't do me any good on a new mission. Explain where and how I was weak or outright screwed the pooch.
I want to take the input and apply it to the current salvage operation I'm in the middle of right now. I need to decide to quit wasting time on it and start over, or stick it out and make something releasable from it.
I'll take all the criticisms, see if I can find them in this mission, and decide if I can make adaptations or not.
I have a gut feeling that this mission is a whole new level of ugly and boring. You can't see that, but you can help me make up my mind with your critiques of past missions.
Thanks ahead of time.
P.S. I don't always pick up on subtleties, so you don't necessarily have to be cruel, but it would probably be quicker if you were blunt.
itllrun10s on 13/10/2019 at 14:42
Bluntly, I've thoroughly enjoyed every mission you've ever made and have replayed them all numerous times through the years. Whatever mission you release, I will enjoy and appreciate. Truthfully.
Nightwalker on 13/10/2019 at 16:32
I know it's not useful but I feel the same way. I've enjoyed them all!
Tannar on 13/10/2019 at 16:37
The worst mission you ever made was... better than the majority of other missions out there. That's not idle praise, that's how I remember your missions. I was looking over the names of your past missions, and there are two I don't remember at all, and it's possible I haven't played them yet. Those are Flip a Coin and Just Take a Look. Other than those, I'm afraid I don't remember the details of the others well enough to give you any honest critiques, but I can't recall any in which you "screwed the pooch".
I know this isn't very helpful, but the thing is, what I tend to remember most about missions is not so much the details, but how much I enjoyed them. What I remember most about your missions is that they had great Thiefy gameplay, good stories (a must for me) and were filled with nice little touches of interest and humor. Your missions have always been among my favorites.
With that in mind, we've had numerous discussion on this forum of what matters most to players in an FM, and the overwhelmingly prevailing view has always been that the cosmetics (such as fancy architecture, textures, etc.) while nice to have, are nothing compared to story and gameplay. I've played some missions that were stunning to look at, but not as memorable to me as those that focused more on gameplay and story. Thought that might be worth mentioning.
Lord Soth on 13/10/2019 at 20:43
Do not think i would say there is any BAD missions. Always good to see anything from people who love this game TBH.
fxdwg on 13/10/2019 at 20:56
I too cannot give you any relevant feedback. It's been too long since I played one of your missions (8 years ago). I don't remember them specifically, however, I do recall you being a mission author with some seriously outstanding mission content submitted for our pleasure.
What I wanted to say is that I greatly respect you boldly putting forth this question to this community in this way. I truly hope you can find the answers you need.
Schlock on 13/10/2019 at 22:36
Of your missions I've played Thieves' Highway, Flip A Coin, Power of Suggestion, and Chain of Events. Flip a Coin was my favorite, while Chain of Events was my least favorite.
Regarding the latter, here are some things I didn't like:
- The objectives are lopsided: the main objective is very easy and quick to complete while the loot goal (on expert) is strict.
- Weak ambient sound. This criticism extends to your other missions as well. There are incidental sounds like transformers ticking and wind blowing but none of the musical ambient loops that most missions use. It could be that these were excluded deliberately for realism but I think they'd liven the missions up.
- The main city area is fairly flat with independent, free-standing buildings which leads to a repetitive pattern of 1. Enter a building at street level, 2. Scan every floor for loot, 3. Return to the street level and repeat at the next building. Your other missions have more in the way of jumping between rooftops or windows or ledges, or rope arrow spots. There were at least some sewer entrances, but sewers are mostly long corridors with no interesting visuals or gameplay.
- Technical issues. Nothing major but I noticed multiple places where sounds cut off or leak through walls which occasionally made it hard to keep track of patrols.
And some things I liked:
- The mission is pure gameplay. The story gets the job done while being entirely unintrusive.
- Guards were well placed as to provide a balanced challenge.
- Creative use of stock T2 assets - practically every room has unique details.
- Every building can be entered.
- Intricate brushwork details like furniture or filing cabinets or pyramidal railings. As I understand you cut a lot of this out of your WIP to save cells but I hope there's room for some of this in the end. It's an unmistakable signature of your style.
Still a good mission overall but I didn't find it up to the high standard set by the other three.
Psych0sis on 13/10/2019 at 23:44
Exactly one half of the replies are people just ignoring the question of the thread instead of answering what he wants you to answer. It's ok to give criticism guys.
Now, as far as answering the thread topic goes, Schlock's post summed it up for me, as I too share the opinion of that one being the weakest, and for many of the same reasons.
I'd go so far to say that the flatness of the city streets extends to all of your missions, which is still a problem. You can also try to create more interesting shapes with your buildings, as a lot of them tend to be Giant Solid Cubes with windows, which does have an OM charm to them but visually leaves much to be desired.
That's the only nitpicks I can add from Schlock's post off the top of my head right now. Personally I value gameplay and level design more than ambients and story, so I do tend to enjoy every one of your missions when I've played them.
Tannar on 14/10/2019 at 00:25
Quote Posted by Psych0sis
Everyone is just ignoring the question of the thread instead of answering what he wants you to answer. It's ok to give criticism guys.
No, everyone is NOT ignoring the question. Saying a thing doesn't make it so. Half of those that answered have acknowledged the question, but said they simply can't remember the missions well enough to offer helpful criticism now. That isn't ignoring the question, and it's not about any lack of desire to criticize. I'd be more than happy to offer helpful critiques if I had played the mission recently enough to do so, and I'm certain many of the others would as well.
uncadonego on 14/10/2019 at 00:54
The two things Schlock and Psych0sis mentioned are bothering the hell out of me right now too.
Every mission, I know darn well I should have added some music. I like the quiet, the lack of distraction from other sounds, but some music should have been in my missions.
The other thing they mention, flatness, is also true. I added some ups and downs in The Time That Has Passed, and in this one, but it's not enough. I think of Disorientation as a beautiful example of the opposite of flatness.
Now, the last point is the one that is bothering me the most in this mission right now. Giant solid cubes with windows. I run through this mission, and I think: "Geez, this is nothing but a bunch of walls with windows" This is the part bothering me the absolute most right now. Really, really, bothering me. I'm just thinking if it's irritating the hell out of me, it will irritate a lot of players.
Retrofitting this 2007 mission into NewDark is only half working. Carve air spaces with "playing units" inside them aren't necessary anymore. I can see where the whole look of the mission would be better re-built from scratch. I am standing in an area thinking to myself: " If I hadn't started this mission 12 years ago in OldDark, instead of looking at a distant facade wall, the player could see the actual distant buildings over there, the engine can handle the view now." The mission as a whole would benefit.
Music I can do, and I have tweaked so far from a Dromed crash because the mission exceeded maximum of 32,760 cells. I've tweaked it down to 15,597 cells. This leaves me room for some more building and finishing the mission.
My debate right now is punch through and finish, or scrap it and start clean with new Dromed rather than release this OldDark/NewDark hybrid.
It's like this thing is walking with a cane compared to what can be accomplished these days. It's just...you know, scrap all those hours and hours of work? Big debate for me right now.
Ok, please keep the criticisms coming folks. I appreciate it.
