Zhickel on 8/1/2021 at 08:45
Quote Posted by cavador_8
Taking away my blackjack, a "do not alert anyone" objective, and forcing me to ghost are really the only things that immediately turn me off from playing a mission. And of course a poor frame rate.
Negative objectives. ie: DON'T do this, or that. Don't alert Lord Knyackybowla's cousin. Don't let the master's third cousin see you...
These are the objectives that seem to break the most frequently. Hard to enjoy a game when you don't know what you've done wrong and can't continue. No negative objectives.
thehardyboyz on 8/1/2021 at 12:56
I think most of the things have been said on this thread...
For me, the most annoying thing in a FM is when I can't complete it ghosting.
I don't mind if players want to blackjack everyone in the mission, but that's not my thing.
As it's been said several times in the original games (Thi4f is no original game to me), Garrett is a Master Thief, not a murderer.
He's living and operating in the shadows, as silently as he can. Invisible to the maximum.
I love when I am able to see without being seen. When I can listen without being heard.
It gives me a true sensation of power, difficult to describe but highly satisfactory.
So when I am forced by the author to blackjack a guard which is standing right in the middle of the only path I can take, it makes me mad and I usually stop playing.
Same with objectives implying I have to kill someone or something. I try to avoid combat as much as possible, and even simple contact.
In a word, I understand forced ghosting can be annoying to some players, but for me, forced violence is as much annoying.
vincentlancon on 20/1/2021 at 05:20
I hate non functioning buildings and doors. It just filler.
McTaffer on 20/1/2021 at 06:49
Having no compass probably irritates me the most because 1. I use it as a "reset" button on my inventory and 2. it can be one of the most useful tools for navigation in missions that have no map. It's also easily the peeve I encounter the most.
Many of the earliest missions have wide open spaces with absolutely nothing in them, and that also annoys me even though I know it's a product of the time. I've started working my way through my substantial backlog of Thief 2 missions and this is the number one problem I've noticed in the earliest released missions. In earlier Thief 1 missions it was also annoying, but at least you can bunnyhop through them if/when you have to backtrack. Also, needlessly obscure hidden objects are a major issue, especially when there's no hint as to where they might be or why. I played a mission called "Bathhouse" last night and its main objective was in a locked chest hidden behind an indestructible banner that you have no way of moving. It also featured mandatory crate-stacking inside a tall, narrow chimney. Absolutely painful, but at least that problem is more obscure.
intruder on 20/1/2021 at 08:29
Quote Posted by vincentlancon
I hate non functioning buildings and doors. It just filler.
I have to disagree to a certain extent:
It is often necessary to add "non-functional" buildings for creating the illusion that you're taffing around in a large city.
Having your primary building(s) surrounded by others helps create a more immersive mission.
You wouldn't want every mansion or city section just to be surrounded by a large boring wall.
The same goes for "texture doors": you want to provide players with a clear indication that there is no way in, yet at the same time you want to create a cohesive environment, which requires buildings to have windows and doors.
But I completely agree that "object doors" which can't be opened by any means shouldn't be added to missions.
vincentlancon on 21/1/2021 at 01:22
If you can reach it physically it needs to be a part of the functioning world.... background things you can't reach are fine.. but having things in your actual world that have zero function other than to give filler and space is poor level design.
uncadonego on 21/1/2021 at 02:39
Quote Posted by vincentlancon
If you can reach it physically it needs to be a part of the functioning world.... background things you can't reach are fine.. but having things in your actual world that have zero function other than to give filler and space is poor level design.
Also disagree. Very impractical from a design standpoint also. It would shrink the map like crazy.
Random_Taffer on 21/1/2021 at 06:05
Yeah, and rooftop missions are then basically impossible to do right. All the AI that live there would have to be able to teleport in and out of the upper rooms to get into them from the lower floors.
Fake doors aren't "filler." They're there so the player can pretend the AI that functions in the world can get in and out on a normal day to day basis. It's to make it feel lived in and believable. It makes the world feel bigger and is more immersive. It's not poor level design, lmao.
McTaffer on 21/1/2021 at 08:03
As long as they're not frobbable, they can only add to the atmosphere the way windows do. On the other hand, if they're frobbable unpickable locked doors with no key and a blank wall behind them, then yeah that is a problem because it causes actual gameplay interference.
skacky on 21/1/2021 at 09:50
I guess both Dishonored games, Bloodborne and other games praised for their incredible level design have bad level design then. What you're criticizing is set-dressing, not level design.
