Beleg Cúthalion on 28/12/2009 at 22:50
Just to throw in another thought: When I was trying to re-create the TDP feel in my TDS mission, I noticed that the steampunk architecture with a lot of stupid metal beams looked somehow ridiculous while realistic buildings (more or less industrial) were quite OK.
Chade on 28/12/2009 at 22:56
Quote Posted by Wille
You're right of course. But it looks like some sort of pseudo radiosity, in any case it's more flexible algorithm than the direct lighting used in Doom 3.
What exactly are you talking about here? :weird:
There is configurable ambient lighting (which I'm sure Doom 3 has as well), but apart from that I am not aware of anything that could be labelled "pseudo radiosity" ...
Although note that it is effectively possible to turn normal lights into ambient lights, but afaik no one actually does this (I haven't played any fm's for years though).
Wille on 29/12/2009 at 07:37
Quote Posted by Chade
What exactly are you talking about here? :weird:
There is configurable ambient lighting (which I'm sure Doom 3 has as well), but apart from that I am not aware of anything that could be labelled "pseudo radiosity" ...
I'm simply trying to find a term that describes the lighting method used in Dark engine. To me light behaves in Dark engine just like in games that use radiosity like Half-Life 1. However rendering times in Dark are much faster and light and shadow quality is lower hence my term "pseudo radiosity" :p. I've made levels for both HL1 and T1 & T2 and found them very similar games when it comes to lighting. HL1 has just more options for rendering quality. I've also tried mapping for Doom 3 but soon realised that you need to mess around with the lighting a lot to get natural looking scenery.
ZylonBane on 29/12/2009 at 07:47
Quote Posted by Wille
I'm simply trying to find a term that describes the lighting method used in Dark engine.
Dark doesn't do radiosity of any kind. Maybe the very low-resolution blurry lightmaps it generates are making you think it does.
Wille on 29/12/2009 at 08:00
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Dark doesn't do radiosity of any kind. Maybe the very low-resolution blurry lightmaps it generates are making you think it does.
Perhaps but the important thing is what kind of immersion it creates ;). To me those blurry lightmaps create a more natural looking environment which is a huge part of that Thief feel we are looking for. Enterprising FM authors can improve the lightmaps with careful use of textures and create even more athmospheric environments (i.e. DrK's Rocksbourg series.)
witherflower on 29/12/2009 at 11:00
Ah! The lighting... of course. I'm not sure I understand the process of lightmapping, but I would think it involves shadowing the textures based on light and object positioning... if someone would correct me it'd be nice.
But it is true the lighting in thief is a huge factor in the thief atmosphere. (Those shadows are nightmarishly deep)
muncadunc on 29/12/2009 at 13:54
Quote Posted by Maddermadcat
TDM doesn't feel right to me because of its sound. Every mission I've played so far has been too quiet -- there is no environmental audio. The guards also don't feel vocal enough, and footsteps just sound wrong.
Oh yes, the sound. And the player movement. It's too bouncy, when you crouch you go way too fast. And then there's little things like being able to see bodies over your shoulder when carrying them (a la Thief and Deus Ex).
I think the rest of what's "off" about the Dark Mod is that most of the missions so far have been pretty weak. As people start getting a feel for the engine's capabilities, things will get better. Anyone remember the first Circle of Strain? You could walk right up to the edge of the world and look down at stars. We've come a long way, baby.
SneakyJack on 29/12/2009 at 15:07
Quote Posted by muncadunc
Oh yes, the sound. And the player movement. It's too bouncy, when you crouch you go way too fast. And then there's little things like being able to see bodies over your shoulder when carrying them (a la Thief and Deus Ex).
I think the rest of what's "off" about the Dark Mod is that most of the missions so far have been pretty weak. As people start getting a feel for the engine's capabilities, things will get better. Anyone remember the first Circle of Strain? You could walk right up to the edge of the world and look down at stars. We've come a long way, baby.
Very recently (as in the last two missions) a short but solid warehouse mission (Too Late) and a short but very fun mansion mission (The Parcel) mission has been released - neither of which I considered weak, just really short and simple.
And I agree - the missions are going to get alot better.. you can already see things starting to flesh out as people try new ideas. Coming up they've got another Dark Mod update that will address alot of the issues folks have (people need to remember its still in beta) and will add things like the undead that some miss from the older thief games.
I was a doubter of the dark mod at first but after playing through each mission multiple times - its only just begun. I'm very much looking forward to long, expansive missions and multiple mission campaigns with scripted AI and expand-as-you-play goals much like the fan missions in the later years of thief 1 and 2. The more people that support the mod and give the editor a shot the better chances will be that we will have tons of fantastic missions to play in the future. Those of you who are knocking it without trying it just because its not official thief really are going to miss out, and this is coming from someone that wasn't sold until after I had played a few missions.
Targa on 7/1/2010 at 05:11
Without trying to put a finger on specifics, I would just say that T1 and T2 were designed and created by the same team of people. The ones who had the original vision of what the game should be. It's kind of like a great song from the 50's (or whatever generation). No matter how many great singers release their own version of the song, it never sounds as good as the original (to most people/for most songs). *shrug*
-T
