Garrett OneEye on 12/5/2009 at 18:43
Like many have said, immersion was key. Innovative use of sound in the core gameplay went a long way to help achieve this.
I particularly liked TDP better than the others; when I think about why that is, I come up with:
1) Creepiness. TDP was really weird.
2) Related to the above comment and something I have not noticed many mention before: the ancient language that the pagans used was really creepy. It also seemed believable, in some way, not childish nonsense like it could easily have been. Almost like it could really have existed in some other strange world.
Neb on 12/5/2009 at 19:02
If we completely forget about the actual game mechanics for a second:
You trick a motherf***ing trickster God into killing himself. The sheer principle of it is drenched in awesome.
theBlackman on 12/5/2009 at 19:52
I take the liberty to quote a post from some time ago:
Quote Posted by Reliance
This community is so intertwined with thief that it is no longer possible to compare one side (the game itself) without having to juxtapose it with the other (TTLG).
Community aside, however, there was something (more likely a collection of things) that made thief, not only stand out, but envelop the imaginations of its players into a world that proved that gaming - and video games - could truly be an art form.
The first evidence of this is how well the engine dated. Sure the textures are blocky and TDP was cursed with rooms and halls with exact replicas everywhere in the mission (this created a frenzic passion in me to memorize what distinguished one brown hall to the next) to today standards, but the game is, simply put, stunningly gorgeous. Its beautiful! It flows, it fits, its thief. It was unique. It is unique.
Its art form wasn't the only thing unique either, but it was the first FPS (first person sneaker :-0). It DEFINED a genre, which in and of itself makes thief a classic. Not only did it define the genre, but it remains, to this day, unable to be surpassed in gaming quality and diversity. There are limitless ways to play (with more and more rules, gaming styles, and missions being developed by the community to plus) and it stands as a pillar of true, hardcore, rarely seen gaming goodness.
But if it was simply a unique new aspect and a beautiful visual that dictated how great a game was, we would have many more "GREAT" games. Lo and behold, our little hidden gem of thief is so much more. Its a game, developed for entertainment but proved itself to be a revolutionary form of art. I would take it even further and say that thief took an art form and created a world, a world of intellectual worth. It rivals that of star wars and lord of the rings in the quality - as well as quantity - of wealth of information that is EVERYWHERE.
It had a true plot, with believable characters (this in huge part to S.R.'s incredible voice acting) and a bible worth of notes, messages, phrases, poems, lyrics, books scattered in and out and around corners, on tables, on floors, in random nooks and crannies. It created the infamous city, drowned in umbrage whose single source of luminosity from that of a "low life". A character meant to be hated, frowned upon, and imprisoned. A thief. This echoes that of another timeless classic, Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment where the murderer is saved by the love of a prostitute. The city is saved by the thief. This oxymoron and paradox is overwhelming to our sense of societal efficacy and, quite literally, sucks us in.
We get a NEED and a complete DESIRE to KNOW EVERYTHING there is to KNOW! The canon. We dedicate hours to scrutinizing every word, searching for any clue to anything the city has to give us. We piece together a never ending puzzle, the enigma of our crux as we pilot our unlikely savior into even unlikelier places. It is the gordian knot, even the bane, of our existence. Here we find a world where the human passion is flipped and inverted and the true meanings of the human psyche can be studied and portrayed as lightened gems to our dark pasts.
That is what made thief truly great, and it is that that will continue to hold thief's legendary place as an art loved and appreciated much too late.
Needless to say, if indeed Eidos Montreal took this cross to bear upon their shoulders, they have quite QUITE an act to follow. And if they truly give a rats ass about how thief changed a generation of gaming, they better be scrutinizing these boards for anything they can use. Let this be their warning. They hold in their hands a very fragile light and single break, a single move from canon, could very much obliterate everything LGS put there final breath and life into.
If they do indeed want to move from LGS original plans for the series, I would hope they have the intelligence enough not to put a "4" at the end of the title or affiliate it in any way with the first 2 at the very least. No one would paint the mona lisa canvas black.
[...] As for me THIEF is a game where I need(ed) to learn what Garrett could do. Examples abound of how imaginative invention can expand the potential. In TDP you can learn (if you think outside the box) that an arrow can activate a push button from yards away (The haunted cathedral).
In TMA you are prompted to use that technique in the warehouses. In the FM Calendra's legacy, you need to remember (if you learned the trick) to use it to open the gate of the walled garden near the cathedral.
You! Not the game or an enhancement, need to learn the angle, direction and force needed to make that arrow go where you want it to and do what you intend it to.
No magic bow, no super sighting scope. It's all YOU. Is the gap between stuctures, or across that chasm, too far to jump? Hey! A speed potion will give you extra distance. If you time it right.
Think you forgot something? Go back through the area and search again. Unlike most games, you aren't trapped in a new area. The new maps only open up when you have accomplished EVERY objective. You can decide NOT TO PICK UP that last 5 loot to complete the objective. As a result you can go back over every square inch of the "map" without being locked out.
In too many games the objective is to get through the map and into the next one. The linear aspect just bores me to tears. In THIEF, you have a mission, but how you do it is completely up to you. You want to play AZAL and build a staircase of crates to the top of the lighthouse in "Markham's Ilse". Hell DO IT.
That freedom and "Earn it", not "You get the BFG enhancement because you killed the Boss", is what keeps me playing the original games and the FMs.
I would hope the Montreal people will look and learn from "Rowena's Curse", The seven sisters, Calendra's Legacy, 7th Crystal, and "Flying Age". Masterpieces of game play and innovation. With a crappy editor.
Good luck to all, and I hope the community gets the game that embodies the original atmosphere and playability the we deserve.
Of course, we will still have Lord Alan, Lady Rowena, Christine etc. to feed our hunger should (God forbid) Eidos M, fail.
Picks up soapbox and fades into the shadows...Cobak on 12/5/2009 at 20:07
Quote Posted by theBlackman
I take the liberty to quote a post from some time ago:
As for me THIEF is a game where I need(ed) to learn what Garrett could do. Examples abound of how imaginative invention can expand the potential. In TDP you can learn (if you think outside the box) that an arrow can activate a push button from yards away (The haunted cathedral).
In TMA you are prompted to use that technique in the warehouses. In the FM Calendra's legacy, you need to remember (if you learned the trick) to use it to open the gate of the walled garden near the cathedral.
You! Not the game or an enhancement, need to learn the angle, direction and force needed to make that arrow go where you want it to and do what you intend it to.
No magic bow, no super sighting scope. It's all YOU. Is the gap between stuctures, or across that chasm, too far to jump? Hey! A speed potion will give you extra distance. If you time it right.
Think you forgot something? Go back through the area and search again. Unlike most games, you aren't trapped in a new area. The new maps only open up when you have accomplished EVERY objective. You can decide NOT TO PICK UP that last 5 loot to complete the objective. As a result you can go back over every square inch of the "map" without being locked out.
In too many games the objective is to get through the map and into the next one. The linear aspect just bores me to tears. In THIEF, you have a mission, but how you do it is completely up to you. You want to play AZAL and build a staircase of crates to the top of the lighthouse in "Markham's Ilse". Hell DO IT.
That freedom and "Earn it", not "You get the BFG enhancement because you killed the Boss", is what keeps me playing the original games and the FMs.
I would hope the Montreal people will look and learn from "Rowena's Curse", The seven sisters, Calendra's Legacy, 7th Crystal, and "Flying Age". Masterpieces of game play and innovation. With a crappy editor.
Good luck to all, and I hope the community gets the game that embodies the original atmosphere and playability the we deserve.
Of course, we will still have Lord Alan, Lady Rowena, Christine etc. to feed our hunger should (God forbid) Eidos M, fail.
Picks up soapbox and fades into the shadows...:thumb:
it seems rather anticlimatic of me to follow that up with only a thumbs up but what else is there to say? /shrug
nickie on 12/5/2009 at 20:08
Yes. That freedom to do what you want to do and when you want to do it is so vitally important to me. And thanks for quoting that post by Reliance, I hadn't seen it before.
jay pettitt on 12/5/2009 at 20:10
Oh and judging the arc and trajectory and sniping those little buttons from a distance (possibly through and window and past obstacles) makes you feel like the sharpest, sneakiest, archer there ever was...
or was that just me :erm:
Bulgarian_Taffer on 12/5/2009 at 20:11
Definitely the main reason we have a strong community and we still play the games is that we have the editor - DromEd. Rene and the others should seriously think about releasing a Thief 4 editor as soon as they release the game.
RGL on 12/5/2009 at 21:04
The original games created a kind of fear that I hadn't experienced before. Many a time I just stayed in the shadows afraid to move because things sounded so wierd!
Reliance on 12/5/2009 at 21:06
Quote Posted by theBlackman
I take the liberty to quote a post from some time ago
I'm honored that you did so! :D
jtr7 on 12/5/2009 at 21:11
The good stuff needs to get spread around where nobody can miss it. And that includes theBlackman's post, as well. That's a quote-within-a-post worth linking to.
