addone on 13/5/2009 at 19:11
Maybe that's why the developers are looking to Assassin's Creed for ideas! The rooftops! As repetitive a game Assassin's Creed was, running along the rooftops was so fun, now imagine that with the Thiefy level design, atmosphere and stealthy gameplay!
Though, I have to admit, the rooftops on Assassin's Creed did not have anywhere near the epic feel of the ones in Life of a Party.
jtr7 on 13/5/2009 at 19:13
I imagine a city section 4x the size of Life of the Party/Unwanted Guest, with the option to go on the streets with increased risk!:D
Emeloy on 13/5/2009 at 19:25
Another aspect I really liked about the games, they are some of the very few, where you are a kinda in the grey area morally. Most games allow you to be either the shining hero or such pure evil, hell would refuse you for being overqualified.
Sure Garrett is a thief and not the most likeable person due to what he does, but I think noone could call him evil and he sure isn't interested in being the saviour.
The same fits for every group in the game.... neither the pagans nor the hammerites/mechanists are really evil, even if they can be quiet annoying adversaries.
Ixitixl on 13/5/2009 at 21:12
One small thing - don't forget the undead! (sorry Dia :o)
T2 and T3 (to an extent) both had them in much lower numbers when compared to TDP... I know that a number of people complained about them, and thus the reduction.
However, the undead missions (in TDP, as well as the Cradle) were IMHO some of the very best in Thief. Also, I've seen posts of not a few people claiming that they didn't like these missions at first, but as soon as they played them again they found them to be breathtakingly good.
Haunts, apparitions, fire shadows, Cradle inhabitants - IMHO, these were all rather creative and excellently done (and I'd like to see them again :p). Of course, some of them are getting a bit old now (haunts), as they have kept returning in every game... so one or two new, imaginative types of undead (and perhaps creatures/monsters!) are in order. Perhaps even a little change or two to the old types for fun.
I could say more, but my focus was on the undead... so that's it for now :)
Kircaldy on 13/5/2009 at 21:31
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
What made the original games so good:
1.) being vulnerable enough that being undetected is more a requirement than an option
2.) the exploration of huge, unfamiliar/unpredictable settings
3.) the mythos
4.) the soundtrack
5.) flavor pieces (all of the books, letters, etc that are scattered around and have more to do with selling the setting than merely being hints on the current mission)
5.) the characters and dialogue, primarily presented through the idle chatter of NPC's and Garrett's occasional sarcastic observations
6.) differences in difficulty make changes to level architecture and mission objectives, rather than merely making the game mechanics more difficult
7.) the sense of humor
I concur, nicely put
Taffer36 on 13/5/2009 at 22:00
I think it was its unrelenting dedication to the genre. It was able to find a great middle ground in the gameplay, being so much more than 99% of stealth games today (if they're looking at you they see you, if their back is turned they don't is NOT very compelling stealth), but it didn't make things too complicated.
TTK12G3 on 13/5/2009 at 22:05
I believe I enjoyed exploring the levels most of all.
Chade on 13/5/2009 at 22:38
1) Gameplay that encourages you to pay constant attention to the encironment you are exploring. (eyes and ears)
2) An environment that is pleasing to pay constant attention to.
3) The player is the one dictating the pace and direction of the action.
Shadows indicate areas that are "guaranteed safe", allowing the player to dictate the pace of the game. Light indicates areas that are "potentially dangerous", and guards change such areas from "really dangerous" to "potentially dangerous" (and vis versa) as they move about. Loot denotes an area that you should plan to navigate to at some stage in the future. Doors indicate the potential for areas to become "really dangerous" with very little advance notice, increasing tension. The sounds around you give advance warning that the environment is about to change.
Etc ...
Opal-Eyed Fan on 13/5/2009 at 23:42
What I liked about thief first time I played:
-Baffords demo level. That was so cool, a hell of a lot better than the Bafford level presented in the actual game. I played that demo for weeks, and I was slightly disappointed when I played it in the actual game afterwards, because of the silly changes.
I loved the way the game rewarded you for difficulty. You killed the guard! NO, Disqualified!! Leave the field immediately! You cheated! :D
How many did you blackjack, how much loot did you find,... you're current score is: .... The game is like a competition and you're competing against yourself, you want a better score? replay and do better. :thumb:
The difficulty setting decided how much of the level was accessable to you, so I always played on easy first and then increased the levels difficulty afterwords and played through the levels again. Great motivation for replaying the game.
The undead scared me half to death,
I had no idea how to beat them and first time I played through bonehoard I could not remember anything from the level after I finished,
because I had been so scared when I played.
Return to the cathedral was the most epic level I had ever played and still to this day I have never played anything that has left a greater impression on me.
The sound of those undead followed me to sleep. Thief really knew how to scare me.
Thief 2 however was interesting.
I never felt truly scared by any of the levels in T2, the robots just weren't scary enough.
The burricks in lost city were much scarier opponents than the steamrobots of T2.
But not being scared also had an advantage, I had more calm time to think and plan my approch.
I also felt the level design of T1 was better than the level design of T2.
Shipping and recieving was great and it was probably the level that impressed me the most,
along with life of the party, which was truly epic.
The last level of T2 was ok, but I would have had more fun going up against a bunch of human and undead opponents rather then robots and machines.
It sometimes felt kinda like manouvering unseen through a laundryroom without being detected by the washingmachines.
I loved the exploration part of thief.
The way you could wander off and get lost on your way to the objective, was pretty cool.
I got lost so many times and I loved the fact that it was even possible.
Again in T2 I didn't get lost so much.
The overall leveldesign in T2 was a bit more straight forward and that was ok really, but at the end of the day I still prefer the leveldesign of T1/Tg.
Thief3.. hm. TDS, hm... I would much rather think of T2X as T3.
5tephe on 14/5/2009 at 02:04
People who want to play something with more intelligence or subtlety than Duke Nukem, and aren't interested in the fantasy of weilding Great Sorceric Power are a minority. They like playing Thieves.
Now, I dare say the first two games could have achieved their greatness while being a more RPG style of thing: allowing you to invent your own character, but they went for a more certain option of giving you Garret to play.
And they got him right.
He fulfills all the needs of the players who are interested in this type of play.
He's self interested, and not hidebound by society's expectations.
He's funny and cynical.
He's cautious.
He's smart.
He's a little self congratulatory, when he knows he's been clever.
He's resourceful.
Taking that as the base character, they built up a world around him that would let him display all of those qualities. And let the players live the fantasy of being him, and feeling exactly like he does.
Then, they built up a story that let him display it all again. One of the most telling points in the whole game, is when Garret has woken up in Constantine's house (after the 'event'), and then gotten out - he DOES NOT set out to get revenge, or stop the evil mastermind.
He doesn't want to die in the planned apocalypse, but he doesn't think it should be HIM that stops it. He goes for help - to the guys who hate him the most!
Then, only after they can't help, and there is no-one else left to do the job, he reluctantly agrees to go it alone, and save the world. Remember that world-weary tone in his voice in the briefing for that final mission? I felt that reluctance and resentment too.
They NAILED the character of A Thief. It was exactly what it needed to be for people who like playing thieves. Everything else sprang from there.
That is not to say that Garret has to be the star of T4. I think the folk who brought us T2X accomplished the same goal with Zaya.
But what EIDOS have to do is make a character that we can all believably inhabit, and have them realistically go on a journey that lets them be (or become) a Master Thief.
You could change a lot, but if you didn't accomplish that, you'd fail no matter what else you did.
