Zontik on 15/9/2015 at 07:01
200-500 hours per mission (if you don't build MissionX or something similar).
zajazd on 15/9/2015 at 08:56
For me most important is sense of progression, that's why my fav are authors like eepcat, sliptip, the one who made Whispers in the Desert (sorry :p) etc. Their missions have great pacing and overall design. Too many missions suffer from symptoms like too many doors, too cramped spaces, no sense of direction and purpose, backtracking. I understand that it is extremely hard for one person to achieve great design on their own but there are some big talents out there like aforementioned.
greenie2600 on 15/9/2015 at 12:34
Melan, I don't think I've played those—I'm going to check them out soon. Thanks.
I've found (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFIcXS4qx4E&list=PLRW40lAkTDpkQxVz2WBpQ9W1Jtgn6ad-_) ThiefFM_Dale's DromEd tutorials on YouTube to be very helpful so far—they're clearly presented, and you can tell he thought beforehand about how to explain the concepts and what order to present them in (in contrast to the usual YouTube tutorial format, where the author just hits "Record" and starts babbling, stream-of-consciousness style). Well worth a look if you're trying to learn DromEd.
FireMage on 15/9/2015 at 13:35
@Green: Good luck with your first mission! ;)
Don't care about the time necessary to build your mission! xD This is a game you love and want to expand! ^^ You should play with Dromed, learn at your own speed how the engine, the game and AIs are working to the point you will be satisfied with your mission and did the most part of things you got in your head! :)
Don't care about how people may think about your plot too! I know that expanding the universe may sometimes make to feeling to break something in Thief's World! :) Never give up in front of a bug! If the software is accusing you of trespassing the limits allowed by the engine, don't worry! Just split your mission in different parts, replace some details with objects (some designers here are always ready to help Dromeders), or any other idea that may force Dromed to do what you plans to do! ^^
Keep this in mind: You are the Builder when you use Dromed and you create because you enjoy it! If you are not in a contest, never force you to build a mission! :) Take your time! :D
About the rest, scripting, cutom stuff, do not worry pale! x) It's true that most part of mappers use them, but there are no laws for that! ^^ Some great maps has been created with everything that Thief already contains!
Ha! :idea: And last piece of advice : There are many tutorials that help a lot to begin and that are well explained to understand the bases! But remember: Once you will masterize the bases, have no fear to combine things, to play with the properties, to try everything! Because with such things, you may discover a lot of amazing funny things and effect to make good puzzle, original items or AIs etc.
And above all: Explore the mesh and obj crf files! :) trust me! Many models are not used at all and are hidden deeply in these files!
I found pearls in it, Melan too if I remember correctly! Better than that: We have discovered that some games doesn't have the same contain!
Some persons here will remember that time where I found in my files a Warrior Skeleton and a Ghoule that some people here were unable to find in their files! So keep your eyes open on that point! ^^
And to finish that long post:
If you got an idea and you have hesitation about "how to apply it", think about things you saw in other fan missions or OM missions or just objects in the gamesystem! Trust me! There are many things to learn with it! And if you combine it correctly, you will be able to do all that you want with no borders!
Your lonely unbreakable wall will be the hardcoded stuff! But the engine is so soft that there is always a way to get around! :thumb:
Good luck!
greenie2600 on 15/9/2015 at 16:00
Thanks for the encouragement, FireMage. I don't think I'll have much trouble learning DromEd, or figuring out the scripting—I'm pretty technical. I just hope I have the creativity to come up with a good mission, and the patience to actually build it. Right now I'm just fooling around, but if I do decide to create a mission, I'm going to start with something pretty basic.
I was brainstorming last night, and it occurred to me that an indoor shopping mall full of security guards and different shops might be fun. It's silly, of course, and doesn't really fit into the Thief universe—but that doesn't mean it couldn't be an enjoyable mission, and it'd be something new.
Renault on 15/9/2015 at 17:28
Not a bad idea - you could always adapt it to the Thief world by making it a market or bazaar or something similar. Even something like the OM Shipping & Receiving kind of falls in line with what you're talking about.
Regarding the topic at hand, it's a good debate regarding whether authors should create the kind of mission they want to make vs. making what the players want to play. I tend to lean more towards the former, as long as the author is OK with the backlash and consequences of some of their decisions. I mean, if you're going to spend hundreds of hours creating an FM, shouldn't it be spent doing something you want to do? Just keep in mind that if the mission's difficulty is a combination of Keeper of Infinity and King's Story, and you have a dozen hidden microswitches and lockpicks that take 5 minutes, you're going to get pummeled with complaints.
greenie2600 on 15/9/2015 at 17:49
Yeah, I mean, my notes were meant more as "here are some tips to avoid frustrating players inadvertently", rather than "here's the style of mission you must make".
I don't think any author wants to make a mission that snags the player on overly dense geometry, or breaks immersion with invisible walls and ceilings, or fails to provide entertaining challenges. Other items on the list are admittedly more a matter of preference, such as ridiculously hard-to-find secrets and long readables. It's just that I've played a lot of fan missions where the author didn't seem to realize how those decisions impact gameplay. If it's a deliberate choice, that's totally fine.
greenie2600 on 15/9/2015 at 17:53
Incidentally, I watched <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPqwDGXxLhU">this video</a> last night, and I thought it was a pretty good analysis of what makes Thief's original missions great, in terms of both storytelling and game mechanics. I really like his point that Thief tells a story
through gameplay—the environments are designed so that you learn about characters and conflict as an inevitable side effect of exploring and playing, rather than spoon-feeding them to you via cutscenes.
TannisRoot on 15/9/2015 at 20:49
I don't think the OP is pointless - but I agree that a list of best design practices would ideally be aimed at new dromeders, of which there are precious few.
I tried komag's tutorial a decade ago and found myself quickly overwhelmed. I've thought about giving it another go but I barely have little time to for video gaming as it is. :(
That said, discussing game design is a fun past time!
