What makes Thief great?

jay pettitt on 6/5/2005 at 23:56

Quote Posted by Thiefsie Fool

The elemental arrows were gamey elements of the interface? Well it didn't feel very gamey to me, and didn't feel exactly like an element of the interface either.

That's because Thief mixes game and game world so very very well.

In non gamey realities you don't get elemental arrows. And if you did, they wouldn't fly very well, what with them being a bit lop sided and unaerodynamic and all. But in game world, having a bunch of arrows of realistic proportions poses a problem. Arrow heads are tiny, nondescript and on the other end of a long stick. How is Player supposed to easily tell which of his/her arrow types is equiped? By making them over-size and brightly coloured of course. Genius.

SneaksieDave on 7/5/2005 at 03:59

What makes Thief great? Just play it and see - it's the total package in my opinion, and the pieces shouldn't be separated from the whole. Without the sound, it wouldn't be Thief. Without the "feel" of movement, it's not Thief. Without the humor, it wouldn't be Thief. Without the darkness, and the mystery, intrigue, and suspense, it wouldn't be Thief. Without the size and scope of missions, it's not Thief. Without the undeniable quasi-fantasy-realism, it wouldn't be Thief. Without the gameplay, it wouldn't be Thief. The brilliant coming together of so many great things to create one experience is what makes Thief great.

Aside - with regard to trolls (or, more accurately, troll) that use the same taunting tactics again and again, straight out of left field - isn't that supposed to be regulated or something? :erg:

kenshabby on 7/5/2005 at 07:29

Quote Posted by SneaksieDave

Good point well made. Totally agree, it's more than the sum of its parts.

broken on 8/5/2005 at 13:06

y'all left out something purdy important :)
stephen russell.

c'mon! he's garrett, karras and benny! without them, thief just wouldn't be the same.

Bronze Griffin on 8/5/2005 at 15:54

This is very true!

windog on 10/5/2005 at 16:18

Story and Game Play are probably the two majors in my book
But atmosphere is vital to keep them linked i feel.

At the end of the day A good game is one that covers all aspects well and keeps you on your toes. One of the great things with Theif I and II (havent played III) is the whole first person, then the stratergy to hiding in shadows, etc. then the problem sloving - which is well woven into the story line. Its imperative that the gameplay/problem solving actually fits with the story.

Domarius on 10/5/2005 at 16:33

Quote Posted by spix's circlet

That's ridiculous jay. How could you possibly know whether elemental arrows would be non-aerodynamic? In actuality, it hardly matters whether you could prove they would or would not because this is Thief, and we are led to believe that they do. The fact that it is fantasy negates game-realities like undead, magical gemstones and burning glyphs. As the majority of games give the player somewhat immediacy of weapons and such, Thief did well to distinguish the arrows without a too gamey interface. ''Bright coloured and oversized''? The water arrows are blue, the fire ones have a little smoke etc. Why would it be any different? As for distinguishing them, Garrett may change the form of the tails, the colour of the tails, the texture and perhaps even segregation. Or if you want to talk about reality, he would take one out and look at it.

Jay made a good point, and you missed it. In the end, it is a game, and you have to take that into account.

Look at the size of the keys in Thief 2. They are like, 4 times as big as a real life key. Why? Because having such small objects in a game would be difficult to see, to the point of ridiculousness so that it wouldn't be fun.

Because we don't have the same visual acuity there as we do in real life, basicaly, because we're not really there, so we don't have depth perception, can't see as much detail, etc.

jay pettitt on 10/5/2005 at 17:53

Huzzah. At least someone recognises my leftfield brilliance. ;)

Of course it's not just a case of over size arrows and other gamey things, but that Thief wraps them up in the gorgeous thiefy fantasy gameworld so completely that you're never really sure which is which ~ practical solution to gameplay headache or inspired element of a wonky steampunk fantasy world?

I'll shut up now.

Campaignjunkie on 10/5/2005 at 22:04

I think a large part of Thief's greatness is the audio. Few games have the same consistency and high quality sound that Thief games have. Plus, sound just seems like a real gameplay element too - I remember my heart would race as I listened carefully for nearby footsteps in a hallway. The guards and the townspeople also talk frequently, and it makes them seem so much more human. They'll respond to the players actions too (in TDS, they notice when loot is missing, for example). While games like Doom 3 and HL2 have great audio as well, it's definately not as pervasive an element as Thief. It definitely goes a long way in creating the distinct atmosphere that you're a thief, and you're not supposed to be there stealing things.

theBlackman on 10/5/2005 at 22:30

Quote Posted by jay pettitt

Actually I would say ignorance. The makeup of a quiver of arrows in real life allows for quick identification by the archer. Floo floos, target points, hunting points and other such arrows are coded in the fletches, or with a texture difference near the fletching and nock.

There is a visual identification, and for a foraging hunter (birds, varmints, or larger game) the arrows can be quickly identified (without the use of the eyes) by the feel of the fletching, and, for some archers, the feel of the shaft near the nock.

As for the Xtals mounted on the arrows, balance is a simple thing. You have no evidence that the various Xtals, when used, were not counterbalanced with a matching weight distribution on the head to "even" the arrow out.

Granted, fantasy allows for, and forgives the abeyance of "natural law". But your ignorance of the reality of the RL applications you complain about approaches fantasy in its own right.

So babble on, and hope your ignorance does not interfere with your real life over much.