New Horizon on 22/7/2010 at 02:41
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
Still, you should see the decoration being different from the rest.
It's there, but different conditions can make it almost impossible to see. Different monitors can make a huge difference. If they had simply lit the item up like the original games, it wouldn't have been an issue...but covering it up with a blue frob texture was silly.
Fian on 22/7/2010 at 23:20
I think I disagree with most people here. I think TDS was the best Thief game. I played that one first, and then went to the first 2. I like the dagger. I like the loot glint. I like climbing gloves more than rope arrows (btw, there are plenty of hidden spots in the city that require the gloves. They are just well hidden).
Things that I would like to see in Thief 4:
I do agree that the levels should be larger.
The crouch mode made stealth too easy, on the other hand I don't like creeping slowly either. Walk mode should just make the same amount of sound as creeping (ie get rid of creeping). Running should make more sound.
Guards gave up their search a little too quickly, but that was probably due to small levels. I would like to see them slightly tweaked upward in difficulty.
Some guards should be able to slow you down when you run, to make the game more challenging. There should be a counter that you can use to fix the issue, though (maybe use your dagger to cut away the web, or drink a potion to remove magical restraints).
I personally like the idea of no save during a level. Reloading really breaks immersion.
jtr7 on 22/7/2010 at 23:58
Well, thanks for your honesty. Now we all know. :thumb:
Judith on 24/7/2010 at 11:05
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
About the loot texture, the table and wall have JohnP textures but for the loot there is apparently nothing except for a normal map (see below, tinted to make it look less ugly than the usual normal map blue-violet). I guess the different colours in the game are done with material library tinting options. Judith's the guy to ask for such things.
Looks like they used some blank texture, tinted it in Ion Shader options and added normalmap. They could have done a better job though, with regular diffuse and specular or cubemap.
By the way, I think the original question is wrong: noone will use TDS as a point of reference, since the its engine won't be used. Even if they recreate some or all of TDS features (and that probably won't happen), it will look and feel different. I'd say we should wait for DX:HR and then think what should be improved from that game when it comes out.
Beleg Cúthalion on 25/7/2010 at 10:02
I admit I'm lazy, would adding cubemaps require altered matlibs? Otherwise (or maybe still) adding cubemaps for loot would be fairly easy, just in case we in fact manage to release a "patch" for TDS.
Judith on 25/7/2010 at 10:36
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
I admit I'm lazy, would adding cubemaps require altered matlibs? Otherwise (or maybe still) adding cubemaps for loot would be fairly easy, just in case we in fact manage to release a "patch" for TDS.
Yup, to make it right, you'd need to change the matlib definition, and probably the diffuse texture as well, so the cubemap "strength" isn't even on the whole surface.
Alic on 26/7/2010 at 08:25
the thing that dissapointed me most in TDS was the city. They made it out to be some big hustling and bustling metropolis. I thought it would be something like assassins creed (abliet not as big) and then when I got to it it was a couple of streets with two or three civilians walking in circles :bored:
Fian on 29/7/2010 at 16:33
Quote Posted by Alic
the thing that dissapointed me most in TDS was the city. They made it out to be some big hustling and bustling metropolis. I thought it would be something like assassins creed (abliet not as big) and then when I got to it it was a couple of streets with two or three civilians walking in circles :bored:
Actually, the city seemed busier than I expected. It was night time, after all. Most people are probably in bed. The size of the city certainly was a problem, but there are definite times in the game where the streets were pretty crowded. Even on the light nights where no one is trying to kill you, there are probably at least a dozen AI walking around. As for walking in a circle, the AI seemed reasonably believable. They certainly weren't using the Oblivion engine to go to their jobs and take naps and all, but do we really care about that in a thief game? Answering my own question, it would be rather cool, if the paths of the AI were more complex, introducing a greater element of surprise. I am not sure it would be worth the effort, though, as other more important features might be cut since development resources are always limited.
Alic on 31/7/2010 at 20:15
Quote Posted by Fian
Actually, the city seemed busier than I expected. It was night time, after all. Most people are probably in bed. The size of the city certainly was a problem, but there are definite times in the game where the streets were pretty crowded. Even on the light nights where no one is trying to kill you, there are probably at least a dozen AI walking around. As for walking in a circle, the AI seemed reasonably believable. They certainly weren't using the Oblivion engine to go to their jobs and take naps and all, but do we really care about that in a thief game? Answering my own question, it would be rather cool, if the paths of the AI were more complex, introducing a greater element of surprise. I am not sure it would be worth the effort, though, as other more important features might be cut since development resources are always limited.
I take your points, my main problem is that it was bigged up to be a major part of the game, when it seemed to be just an pointless sequence of areas to traverse between missions. I realise that some of the plot took place in the city and there are severel other events which take place there, but it felt to me like they were only there because they had to put something there. I think it could have easily been implemented in missions
loveandbeer on 4/8/2010 at 14:16
"In order to survive you must use stealth and evasive manoeuvres to progress through a world where shadows are your only ally, trust is not an option and confrontation usually results in death" - the bumf from T1
Garrett is not a skilled fighter so his best option is to run and hide. The guards need to be better in combat than before (they are employed for this reason after all) so if Garrett decides to stand up to them, he is cut to ribbons. For this reason i think the sword is not needed (you can always block with the blackjack if you have to). Personally i try not to kill any guards at all so even the dagger is not essential, although a small blade could always be useful.
I felt the map in TDS was too detailed (although consolists would probably disagree), i quite liked only knowing what area i was in, with no indication of room layout etc as you have not been in the place before.
some other things:
- the original loot sound was always oddly satisfying, has to be in T4
- instead of taking a whole painting with frame (not very stealthy to carry around) why not be able to cut the picture from the frame, would add a new challenge with the risk of an empty frame being spotted by a passing guard
- get rid of those stupid climbing gloves, rope arrows please!!
- go back to the level system of T1/T2, massive levels with loads to explore. for me the open city killed TDS for me, although i wouldnt complain if it was done to better effect in T4.
- more ways to complete a level, TDS seemed a bit too linear for me, i want to be able to play a level 7 or 8 times and be able to take a completely different approach each times (one of the original games strongest points)
- quick save/load is fine but please no autosave at "checkpoints" in the levels
- readables, lots of readables
if thats not too much to ask
