Maddermadcat on 7/8/2008 at 01:32
Quote Posted by jtr7
In my opinion, The City as a whole is ashamed of the Mechanist movement, and more likely to bury the memory than build on it.
Assuming anyone is actually aware of Garrett's actions in TMA.
Mechanist followers might've tried re-joining the hammerites in exchange for the secrets to mechanist technology. Maybe they thought they were heretics and didn't let them in, or they figured it would be something the builder would see as a good deed and did. The hammerites might've been able to do some interesting stuff with their new knowledge. I was thinking something like hammer-wielding mechanical statues awakened by careless thieves. :P
jtr7 on 7/8/2008 at 03:11
Quote Posted by Maddermadcat
Assuming anyone is actually aware of Garrett's actions in TMA.
I'm sorry, I don't get the connection. Karras's true intentions and Garrett's actions to thwart him aren't necessary pieces of information for The City to know. The nobility's opinion of Karras was so offensive to him, he sought revenge. First, he made them kiss his butt for his fantastic toys, heh.
HIkarras: "All that is metal is not of the Builder alone, as all that is wood is not of the Trickster alone. Wood canst be shaped and carved, so that it serveth as part of a great house for the Master Builder. Even iron canst serve contrary to its nature, for the glory and service of false gods. If thou doubtest these words,
turn thine eye only to the ruin of Soulforge, where the Builder himself smote down the workings of the heretic Karras and his wicked crafts."
And yeah, amending my previous comment, the Hammerites may have gathered their best Inquisitors to determine the eternal fate of their fallen brothers.
From
KCdictionary.sch: "Compiled Lexicography, Volume IV: Religion
Mechanist Religion - A schism of the Hammerite Religion (see) formed by the prophet Karras. The Mechanists were characterized by a focus on machinery and technology, and an overwhelming desire to destroy elements of nature.
After the destruction of their primary cathedral Soulforge and the death of Karras, the religion was disbanded. See Hammerite Heresy Trials, The for more information."
f13_donttrade1: "Wanted to let you know, so there's no confusion down the line...I don't take none of that old mechanist stuff...in fact, no metals at all, not even gold...don't like 'em. You'll have to take those somewhere else."
The people don't seem too interested in building on Mechanist technology, and there doesn't seem to be any known attempt to.
MUSmechanist: "Mechanists
Though short-lived, the Mechanist movement brought advancements into wealthy households,
until both the sect and the technology associated with it came to an abrupt end. Now curiosities, these steam and lightning powered niceties comprise some of the labor saving and security devices deployed by the Mechanists."
And although this is only her opinion, players seem to feel her opinion is shared in general.
WidowViktrola_001000: "Bryant tells me you've left a message for me on the viktrola. Really, Robert, can't you just tell me yourself? That silly viktrola annoys me--why must we have
that ugly Mechanist thing crouching in our bedroom? If your message is really so important then, then you'll tell me yourself at dinner. Yes, dinner, I'll have cook prepare all your favorites."
Again, it's all subjective where it isn't clearly stated.
Maddermadcat on 7/8/2008 at 04:20
Quote Posted by jtr7
I'm sorry, I don't get the connection. Karras's true intentions and Garrett's actions to thwart him aren't necessary pieces of information for The City to know.
Your quotes don't really show any evidence of actual shame though. None of them really knew about Karras' terrible plans for the City. All they thought was that he was an odd little man who could be bribed in return for favours and fancy toys.
f13_donttrade1 might be a result of mechanist tech being useless without mechanists being there to maintain it. That's just a guess though.
Beleg Cúthalion on 7/8/2008 at 07:19
One could however argue that technical advance somehow still makes its way across religious or personal barriers; and since TDS is believed to be less steampunky (although I hesitate to want the too strange things like steel panels on stone walls etc. back), Thief IV could have a little more of that, first because there was less stuff in TDS and second because some Mechanist technologies might have found a way into daily life crabwise - if that's your major concern, Dussander and Maddermadcat.
jtr7 on 7/8/2008 at 08:11
The quotes aren't all, just additional. Real life aside, its the glaring absence of Mechanist buildings and other structures, not just the majority of their technology, which wouldn't require Mechanist maintenance. Real life aside, they've not only faded into the past, it's as though most traces of them have been removed, unless they were never meant to have much presence anywhere other than Dayport and Eastport, and only their gadgets made it around to the other locations. But even the Hammerite technology of TDP/Gold is lacking.
I miss the presence of the turbines, furnaces, boilers, switches, tesla coils, junction boxes, gauges, collector towers, water towers, and so on.
Beleg Cúthalion on 7/8/2008 at 10:53
The fact that TDS takes place in completely different sections of the City than TMA always buggered me when I read those comments about the missing technology stuff in TDS – even more since it had a steampunk mission par excellence with the Clocktower.
Str8g8 showed quite nicely that with a little less fancy Gothic architecture TDS can look a lot more like TMA and romantic at the same time (that is, if you have a romantic vein for industrial buildings). Yes, and I know I'm always dwelling upon this one.
Maddermadcat on 7/8/2008 at 19:00
Quote Posted by jtr7
The quotes aren't all, just additional. Real life aside, its the glaring absence of Mechanist buildings and other structures, not just the majority of their technology, which wouldn't require Mechanist maintenance. Real life aside, they've not only faded into the past, it's as though most traces of them have been removed, unless they were never meant to have much presence anywhere other than Dayport and Eastport, and only their gadgets made it around to the other locations. But even the Hammerite technology of TDP/Gold is lacking.
I miss the presence of the turbines, furnaces, boilers, switches, tesla coils, junction boxes, gauges, collector towers, water towers, and so on.
That's true actually, Ion Storm seemed to have some sort of vendetta for steampunk technology, it seems. Maybe to present it as a more traditional fantasy setting and make it more accessible to people who haven't played the first two?
jtr7 on 7/8/2008 at 19:03
To both Cúthalion and Maddermadcat:
Certainly.
Elster on 9/8/2008 at 20:50
TDS had some nice steampunk elements, like the clocktower, the hammerite factory next to their church, the traps in the museum... too much steampunk would certainly be bad for the game, than it would look like garret is living in a industrial time and not in a steampunk setting.
Another feature i would like is when guards get alerted when they see another guard KOed on the floor, but when the Koed guard lies in a bed the would just murmer something like "That damn lazy taffer, always sleeping..."
That would certainly give a nice addition to gameplay.
jtr7 on 9/8/2008 at 21:34
If the steeampunk was at least as prevalent as in TDP/Gold, then there would be no gripe. Concentrating it in specific locations, instead of showing that this heats and powers the whole City, doesn't compensate to our satisfaction. I'm talking the existence of Thief's commonplace technology that existed at least 50 years before the Mechanists, not the technology the Mechanist movement introduced. I'm talking that basic level of steampunk that blended in so well that people forgot it was there all along.:cool:
