What NEW features would you want in Thief 4???

sNeaksieGarrett on 25/7/2008 at 21:51

Knocking guards out with the blackjack, but then they wake up several minutes later. Or maybe an hour later.:)

Quote Posted by hexhunter

- Some factions/members of the public should have telecoms, basic Radio and TV, aswell as personal radios so that guards can communicate with each other

No, just no. What is this, modern thief? I still want the old medieval setting personally.:)

Damnit, Kin beat me to it:

Quote Posted by Kin

9. Knocked out people could wake up some time. So Garrett must find a place to trap them or lock them up so they won't alert others.

Oh well, it does say what new features would you want .... So duplicates should be expected.

Quote Posted by Twist

Not to the same degree as Penumbra -- as that wouldn't be appropriate in a Thief game -- but I think being able to manually & gradually open a door in a slow, silent fashion would work great within traditional Thief gameplay.

That would be pretty cool Twist. I think Penumbra was innovative with the new controls. I had never seen any game quite like it before that.

hexhunter on 25/7/2008 at 21:59

What? You want to play Thief 3 with better graphics and working collision detection? Do you not want to play a NEW game?

Oh, and we all want rope arrows, stop arguing about how they work, it's magic, like just about anything else in the Thief universe...

2 things the game needs to keep people from saying "this is just like any game from the last generation", are quite definitly a working cover system, and the ability to hang. Limited climbing just evolves from that, if you can hang from a wall, why can't you climb down to a ledge below it?

There has to be new tech too, where else will the story go, for goodness sake. The city is built upon the ruins of the home of an ancient technologically-advanced race, which the writers have mostly avoided. If they don't approach it in the next game, what are they going to do story-wise?

Thats something else I want to know about, where should the story go???

sNeaksieGarrett on 25/7/2008 at 22:13

The point is, it's not 'Thief' without garrett, and it's not 'thief' if it's modern day.:( You might as well call it something else if you going to do that... Or a totally different game with a different main character.

hexhunter on 25/7/2008 at 22:27

I don't want it to be "modern day", it's steam-punk, maybe it's just because I got addicted on T2, but I always thought that the bizarre tech mixed with the victorian/dark age feeling.

Some rich people and cults already have Gramophones and steam engines, I just want to see a wider range of enemies and civilians, from the dark ages peasants in their rags with a single room to live in, to the statesmen who own slaves and electric lights, and show off their expensive creations.

To me, that's what the City is, a dark ages metropolis with magically produced electricity...

Andarthiel on 26/7/2008 at 00:29

I agree with the whole free roaming thing it should be like the Ambush mission in T:MA. The dagger was quite effective so there should be one in T4 as well and a 3rd Person perspective would be great as well. I agree wit Sneaksie, Blackjack effects should be permanent but only on harder difficulties.They should bring back the swimming ability too as well as introducing a prone position function(sort of like MGS). Bring back some of the tech too like the Scouting Orb but no magic, Garrett is not a mage.

Chade on 26/7/2008 at 02:44

I'm pretty happy with the changes attempted in TDS ... my main wish is that they are better implemented, or better integrated into the core gameplay.

Dynamic shadows and wall-climbing in particular seem to be features with a great deal of unrealized potential. I would also like to see them get Keepers right, but it might be a bit late now from the point of view of the plot.

Obviously there are also the obligatory "improvements" to the physics, AI, blah-blah-blah-it-may-be-inappropriate-but-I-am-a-hardcore-gamer-and-refuse-to-be-"immersed"-unless-I-get-this-techie-stuff, and so on ...

A free-roaming city is potentially a good idea, but it needs to be done in a way which ensures the gameplay doesn't lose meaning. If they do a roaming city, I'd like the developers to:

1) Not explicitly encourage meaningless exploration of the city. For instance, don't let the player hoard cash/resources. If they want to explore, then fine, but make sure they are only doing it because that is what is currently most interesting to them.

2) Instead, get value from the city by make sure the plot gets the player exploring.

To be honest, I am not excited by most suggestions in this thread because I find them either bland (better AI), superficial (prone), or completely inappropriate (guards waking up).

This isn't intended to be an insult, however, because I don't really know what changes I do want in thief. I find it difficult to imagine any substantial changes to the core gameplay which don't take away from me being Garrett. Perhaps my main problem is that I don't really know how to quantify the feeling of "being Garrett".

Elentari on 26/7/2008 at 05:38

I have to agree with the whole 'it has to be in medieval-ish setting' argument. I doubt i'd want to play much either if it was modern day. Modern day stuff just lacks the whole atmosphere something like that does. And isn't part of the point to transport us to somewhere -else- for awhile?

Anyway, if there were to be a Thief 4, some of the stuff I'd like to see. . .apart from the afore mentioned 'freedom of movement'.

Granted, I have no idea how technically feasible this is with current technology. But I don't really care. :)

-FULLY- Explorable/buildable areas. If I see a door, I want it to be able to be opened and have something behind it. If I see a window, I should be able to see through it. None of these 'dummy' areas with painted on doors and windows to merely give the illusion to places you can't go.

I don't mind having the explorable area blocked off to smaller 'sections' of city. . .leaving the city as a whole to be undefined and unspecified, so its simply a 'very large city'. Often if you actually can explore the entire city, for games it ends up to be a rather small place. Not the rather sprawling, ancient city of Thief. I'd rather keep the areas smaller and fully packed than ruin the feel of that. So you could still have bits of the city 'visible' through the horizons and closed gates that you can't open for now. But no 'dummy doors!' lol

I rather agree with the 'no 3rd person', idea. Although I enjoyed being able to watch my character in TDS - for some reason making him hop over railings amused me to no end, partly because it was so unexpected to start with. I'd like to keep some of -that- type of movement in the first person. No acrobatics, but some agile moves. Hop over railings/short fences, grab nearby ropes (while already on one. The jumping from rope to rope is a bit odd. . .), etc. Nothing fancy, but we know Garrett's got to be rather agile, after all. I do prefer not to -see- him. . .it leaves more room for your own interpretation of the character, but I don't mind seeing his feet, even in 1st person. it'd be easier to judge where you are if he has feet. (Hopefully we'll fall off edges a little less frequently. . .?)

I wouldn't mind seeing some more world-interactivity as well. While Thief is already pretty good about this, it would be fun if we could actually 'use' some of the stuff we can pick up. Pick up a plate. . .ok, its not worth anything, but we can load it with food and maybe have a meal, leaving behind a dirty plate, naturally. Sacks of flour and sugar, a well and and oven? Lets make bread. Etc. Ok, its useless. . .but it'd add something of interest instead of having everything either be useless or loot.

Definitely, the ability to talk to AI. I would not mind the 'prescripted' conversations where you have to choose from a selection of responses, but it'd be nice to hear him actually hold a conversation with people sometimes. Not always of course, but if he has an ally in some storyline, then why should the mission be so quiet all the time?

And of course I want a better designed level editor that isn't so hard to master! lol Dromed is teaching me more about 3d art - but its still hard get a handle on. In a year of on and off work on my mission I still have not grasped roofs. Something easy to learn, but with complex abilities (for those who know how to script?) would be appreciated. :)

Beleg Cúthalion on 26/7/2008 at 11:11

I think if they did a completely accessible city that would not only be too big for PCs but even more for gameplay. Just imagine you can break into every house, you would need two hours for a little street. It's just too much distraction I fear, you can see it in some T2 FMs.

About climbing; these gloves were rather lame I guess, but - and although I haven't played AC yet - I think that kind of intelligent climbing would be both believable and cool. Of course it should be MUCH slower than in AC, to make it real.

sNeaksieGarrett on 26/7/2008 at 17:40

Quote Posted by Chade

To be honest, I am not excited by most suggestions in this thread because I find them either bland (better AI), superficial (prone), or completely inappropriate (guards waking up).

Whether this was meant to be an insult or not, I find it offensive myself. This is your own opinion, and frankly you saying that guards waking up is 'innappropriate' is just silly. You can already knock out guards in thief 1 2 and 3, why not have them wake up? It'd make it more realistic. Though, I suppose your going to comment back saying you don't want realism.:rolleyes: Though I think someone did have a valid point that perhaps they would only wake up in say Hard difficulty mode or something like that.

Quote Posted by Chade

Perhaps my main problem is that I don't really know how to quantify the feeling of "being Garrett".

Okay, I can understand that. But what's wrong with giving garrett more abilities? Wouldn't it equate to feeling more of "being garrett" ? At least that is how I see it.

Quote Posted by Elentari

-FULLY- Explorable/buildable areas. If I see a door, I want it to be able to be opened and have something behind it. If I see a window, I should be able to see through it. None of these 'dummy' areas with painted on doors and windows to merely give the illusion to places you can't go....

I understand you perfectly. I've kind of felt the same way. Thief 1 and 2 had "textures" for inaccesible doors to inaccesible buildings. While the did give the feel that there were places around, it does feel a tad restrictive, though Beleg probably has a point here about it going too far.... Although there are some people that just like to explore. I guess if it was so open ended, it'd start looking like a role playing game. Hmm...

Quote Posted by Elentari

but I don't mind seeing his feet, even in 1st person. it'd be easier to judge where you are if he has feet. (Hopefully we'll fall off edges a little less frequently. . .?)

Oh yes, I totally agree here! I forgot about that. This is something i'd love in thief. This makes your character seem more real. I liked how in Halo 2 Master Chief actually had a body, and you could look down and see your feet moving. In thief, it almost feels like you have no body at all.:o

Quote Posted by Elentari

I wouldn't mind seeing some more world-interactivity as well. While Thief is already pretty good about this, it would be fun if we could actually 'use' some of the stuff we can pick up. Pick up a plate. . ....

While this idea sounds cool, it'd probably turn off those who don't like role playing games. This starts to sound like a role playing game. Not that I have anything against them, in fact I like RPGs. I could be wrong too, but I'm just trying to not think of just myself in that respect. Though the more world-interactivity could come in the form of Penumbra style interactivity if you catch my drift.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents on the matter.:)

nicked on 26/7/2008 at 18:05

Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion

You could do it if you had an escalating level of law enforcement based on the amount of crime committed, a la Grand Theft Auto. If you made a severe penalty for breaking into every random house - such as the watch presence doubling, it would serve to add tension and put people off just waltzing through every house taking everything not nailed down. If you really needed cash, you could do some housebreaking, but it wouldn't be desirable. Perhaps you could trade with your fence for the addresses of especially rich people.

Just like Garrett would act like in real life - only engaging in common burglary if he really has to, or wants a particular valuable. This is what TDS got wrong - there was nothing, no reason or incentive apart from boredom, to prevent you robbing every house in the city every single night.