Kin on 28/7/2008 at 08:59
There are Thief games and there are GTA games. Two different games. I like GTA but combining it with thief to make one game it would be a catastrophy in my opininon. I am a big fan of thief series and i would love all the games around would be like thief but this can't be done, everything has it's place.
jay pettitt on 28/7/2008 at 10:07
Much rather see tight, intricate missions than GTA please. I really couldn't give a hoot about shopping or free roaming sections - concentrate on the coolest possible missions, player movement and being able to interact with the environs.
I could possibly get giddy with excitement at afore mentioned things like prenumbraesque interacting with physical items and even being able to go prone and crawl around on the ground could have silly amounts of potential.
AI I reckon to be a counter intuitive thing. For sure there really ought to be some progress and there's plenty of scope for it, but I seem able to forgive games with relatively dumb AI that don't try anything smart but are consistent more readily than those with smart AI that screw up badly from time to time. I was quite happy not to care if doors magically open whenever a guard approached, but seeing an AI stick an arm out in roughly the wrong direction, wiggle a bit, walk backward and then have the door open is no doubt a considerable feat of programming, but more than I can stomach. That sort of semi-smart AI just kills immersion for me ala uncanny valley.
zil on 28/7/2008 at 13:15
Slightly offtopic, but why are there such threads when it's clearly stated in stickie above that no Thief 4 will ever be made? Or have I missed anything?
sNeaksieGarrett on 28/7/2008 at 15:31
Zil.. that is what you call an assumption on a TTLG forum moderator. David is not a developer of the thief series, so he can be wrong. Of course at the time that was posted, he was right, but in recent times there seems to be a possibility that thief 4 will come.
Elster on 28/7/2008 at 20:24
Hmm what i would like is not really a better AI, the AI just has to fit its tasks (take for example the AI of the first Unreal, it suited its task quite nicely without being smarter than the user)
what i want is simply that what made the Thief series so awesome, the gameplay and the enviroment.
I mean we all enjoy playing the old thief games, despite the (for todays standard) terrible graphics and the limited movments etc. because of the gameplay and atmosphere.
So i don't care about proning, ropearrows, AIs and all the other stuff, i just want a good gameplay, good enviroment and a good story.
Oh and one certain feature: The setting is steampunk and not medieval so i would like some steampunk-like thieftraps, that would surely be thrilling.
Beleg Cúthalion on 28/7/2008 at 20:42
Actually I always liked that it was (roughly late-) medieval inasmuch as this was the dominant style and steampunk the spice to it. I wouldn't like Gorman Truart to walk around in a justaucorps or the Hammerites with pilot's goggles on their caps.
RavynousHunter on 29/7/2008 at 00:19
Things I'd like to see:
* Fluid controls and movement
* More freedom of movement, not up to Altair's level, but you would expect a Master Thief to have some acrobatic talents.
* Shimmying. 'Nuff said.
* Longer minimum play time (just "running" through the story)
* AI thats more intelligent than artificial
* More gadgetry and/or weaponry would be nice
* Generally, more options in gameplay
* The return of Rope Arrows (could get Vine Arrows from the Pagans, I guess)
* More colors in the right areas (ie: flamboyant nobles' houses should have more purple, gold, and silver)
* A more "smooth-looking" environment, fewer (perceived) sharp edges (stone should have rougher edges, metal should be smoother-looking, etc)
Things that wouldn't bother me too much:
* Modern setting (if done right, no Thug Thief)
* Futuristic setting (again, only if done right)
* Other things I can't seem to call to mind at the moment
New Horizon on 29/7/2008 at 03:38
Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett
This is your own opinion, and frankly you saying that guards waking up is 'innappropriate' is just silly. You can already knock out guards in thief 1 2 and 3, why not have them wake up? It'd make it more realistic.
When people sit down and start tossing out ideas for all these new things, they often don't take the time to think how it changes the existing gameplay. We thought about having guards wake up in Dark Mod, and eventually voted against it. There were technical reasons...such as animating the 'getting up' animations, which would have been extremely difficult due to the AI having to be revived from ragdoll, but more importantly...there were huge gameplay implications. The most basic concept behind Thief is a kind of hide and seek, it is to avoid conflict, and not use violence to achieve your goal. Like it or not, Thief 'is' a game and the more 'realistic' you make it, the less it is Thief.
Thief gameplay encourages the player to use stealth and knockout opponents. Waking AI penalizes the player for using an encouraged play technique...so, does the player then have to knock out the same AI 3 or 4 times during a mission? In my very humble opinion, it complicates a basic, simple, premise and pushes the player to either ghost, or towards a more aggressive playstyle. In a sense, reducing the number or real options available to the player. Our team has spent a lot of time debating and analyzing the original games...so I feel we have a pretty good understanding of what Looking Glass Studios was after. Ion Storm didn't seem to fully grasp it, as they themselves pushed TDS more towards action than Stealth.
Long story short. I feel it's a bad idea to have guards wake up. The improvements should come from making the AI better at what they are already capable of. There is plenty of room to improve the existing system.
TheGrimSmile on 29/7/2008 at 03:54
I always thought the guard patrol increased when you killed someone in TDS. I do remember that if a body was seen and someone ran off because of it, more guards would show up... was that just me?
Although the ideas of making the game more realistic are nice, I'd like to explore some things more on the "magic" side. Maybe some hot, new arrows to replace the water one. Perhaps it could gain you a few seconds as a guard chokes down water. I did really like the idea of choking people in TDS with moss arrows :ebil:
I like the swimmable water, but within limitation. Maybe only waters of a certain depth or color can be used for swimming. Although you couldn't swim in TDS, there was a rather nice view from the Docs.
Lastly, traps. Oooh boy, did I love Constantine's mansion! I mean, I think there should only be one or two levels with them (and none randomly spaced around the City), but I rather did like the idea. Perhaps the AI can get hurt by these, too?
Two things I disagree with:
1.) More factions. Through the whole story, there have been only a few, adding Kurshoks in along the line somewhere. I think they should just stick to those and build off of them. The result of a bunch of factions seems to just bring up running between each of them. Unless every single faction serves some incredibly important purpose, this would take away from the story and break the immersion for me.
Juggle two plates and you get applause. Juggle fifteen plates, you get laughed at and a lot of broken dishes.
2.) You can go anywhere! I think this presents some of the same problems. After you climb up to the fith window to pick up a ring, it gets old. Garrett is a master thief, not some lowlife pickpocet. Sure, he's gotta pick a pocket or two ( (c) Oliver Twist XD), but only when a lady with a heavy purse walks by, or a large house that looks promising comes up. I mean, in missions like Life of the Party, it's okay to have those because each house is part of a path to the main objective. In everyday city wandering, I doubt anything valuble would be kept near an open window, so why bother for a few extra coins?
