What (or who) does Garrett care about ... apart from money? - by chagnampra
chagnampra on 25/5/2009 at 10:27
Thief IV may be a little way off yet, but it's never too early to get excited!!
I don't mind if they do take their time, as long as they get the atmosphere, story and game mechanics spot on.
Just a suggestion: as well as lining his pockets, how about giving Garrett someone he reluctantly cares about? Not exactly a love interest, but it would be nice to show a different, slightly less self-centred, side to the character (which doesn't necessarily have to do with saving the city).
Mabe you could comment on how to give the character even more depth, with an even greater emotional dimension.
Or is it essential to keep Garrett as a solitary, mistrustful, slightly cynical character?Also, how about giving the player more
moral dilemmas in THIEF IV?
What do you think?
Anyway, here's a video I mashed up as a tribute to the shadowy guy and the world of THIEF...
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ueVMwkNFY) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ueVMwkNFY
xx :idea:
jay pettitt on 25/5/2009 at 11:06
Gotta say, I like self-centered Garrett. A lot. The more "missions" and errands he volunteers to undertake for other people the less I like him. By the end of T3 I couldn't care less about Thief. If I were the King of Canada, I would insist EM develop Thiaf with a good old fashioned heist story - sod the City, sod Victoria and sod chivalry.
rainynight65 on 25/5/2009 at 11:47
Forgive me, but a love interest for Garrett would be a bit cheesy. Besides, it's not like he's at home a lot at night anyway. ;)
That's not to say he doesn't care about anything besides money. I think he cares about justice, to a certain point. But at the end of tha day he is a thief, and a good one at that. It's how he makes a living. And maybe, just maybe, that should be the focus of the first two or three missions in Thief 4. Saving the world can come a bit later.
chagnampra on 25/5/2009 at 12:14
Quote Posted by rainynight65
Forgive me, but a love interest for Garrett would be a bit cheesy. Besides, it's not like he's at home a lot at night anyway. ;)
That's not to say he doesn't care about anything besides money. I think he cares about justice, to a certain point. But at the end of tha day he is a thief, and a good one at that. It's how he makes a living. And maybe, just maybe, that should be the focus of the first two or three missions in Thief 4. Saving the world can come a bit later.
If it's done badly, I agree - and I'm not talking about Garrett being the last of the famous international playboys - but how about he makes a connection with someone which goes against all his instincts to remain detatched from human relationships? What if that someone had no idea as to his real life?
What I'm trying to say is that it would be nice if there were key decisions to take in the new Thief storyline - dilemmas as to how Garrett acts and what choices he makes.
Of course, he is a Thief (selfishness is a natural part of his character), but he's also not without a conscience. After all, he's not a murderer of innocents (if he can avoid it). So couldn't it be a extension of that balance if more choices / moral dilemmas were part of Thief 4?
:angel: xx :ebil:
FriendlyStranger on 25/5/2009 at 12:18
"love interest/relationship" is so mainstream, I mean almost everyone's live circles around it - could't we at least leave it out for one or two characters in games/books/films. Has it always got to be the same shit?
I always like exotic characters in games, films etc. and part of Garretts character is his total independence from other people - heck he makes fun out of Basso and Jenivere in T2.
If you take this part out of his personality, you maybe make him more believable, but also less interesting, because he gets conventional then.
chagnampra on 25/5/2009 at 12:34
Quote Posted by FriendlyStranger
"love interest/relationship" is so mainstream, I mean almost everyone's live circles around it - could't we at least leave it out for one or two characters in games/books/films. Has it always got to be the same shit?
I always like exotic characters in games, films etc. and part of Garretts character is his total independence from other people - heck he makes fun out of Basso and Jenivere in T2.
If you take this part out of his personality, you maybe make him more believable, but also less interesting, because he gets conventional then.
Money can't buy you happiness!:laff:
I think you're right - a love relationship wouldn't be right for Garrett. However, I still feel that if he forms SOME sort of connection with SOMEONE (a friend or relative) it gives the character more motivational depth than simply filling his pockets.
:thumb:
FriendlyStranger on 25/5/2009 at 12:46
Quote Posted by chagnampra
Money can't buy you happiness!:laff:
:thumb:
... that's what the rich people want to make you believe ^^
rainynight65 on 25/5/2009 at 13:09
I dunno. As FriendlyStranger said, Garrett is totally independent from anyone else. In the previous games, the Keepers and everyone else needed him more than he needed them. He could just have said 'Screw you, go save the world yourself'. As a criminal (essentially) he can't readily afford to enter allegiances or be dependent on someone. He'll do the odd favour for someone, and of course he has his fences and informers, but I am not sure how an ongoing friendship would work out. It could just land him in a mess if the authorities had to use his friends to get to him. On the other hand, that might be an interesting twist to a story... I dunno, I am undecided. Do it right and it will add to the game. Mess it up and it will be a huge letdown.
SubJeff on 25/5/2009 at 15:48
There are a lot of things they could do that I think would be cheesy or just wrong, but romance is not one of them.
I've said before that i'd like T4 to be a dark romance. It worked really well in Max Payne 2 and Batman 2 (arguably the only good thing about that film). If it were dark and tortured enough it could work, even if it was with Viktoria (potential high cheese factor there though). Garrett's internal monologue would have to be perfectly crafted though, and the cutscenes would have to be perfect.
chagnampra on 25/5/2009 at 16:31
Quote Posted by rainynight65
I dunno. As FriendlyStranger said, Garrett is totally independent from anyone else. In the previous games, the Keepers and everyone else needed him more than he needed them. He could just have said 'Screw you, go save the world yourself'. As a criminal (essentially) he can't readily afford to enter allegiances or be dependent on someone. He'll do the odd favour for someone, and of course he has his fences and informers, but I am not sure how an ongoing friendship would work out. It could just land him in a mess if the authorities had to use his friends to get to him. On the other hand, that might be an interesting twist to a story... I dunno, I am undecided. Do it right and it will add to the game. Mess it up and it will be a huge letdown.
If the story mostly revolves around Garrett doing favours for people he doesn't care two hoots about, his independent spirit doesn't count for anything other than the need to increase his wealth. Maybe that's good enough for some games, but it's only good for a few levels.
If he ends up being blackmailed / framed into a specific course of action, his motivation is set by having no choice, with the 2nd part of that scenario likely being revenge.
If it's about saving a whole city, does that situation become too impersonal for Garrett? He's not a superhero. Why should he care? How about saving / protecting just one person, someone who matters to him in some way?
There's definite potential in forming connections, storywise - despite his personal reluctance to be dependent on anyone or anything. Remember the film LEON? It may have led to trouble for him (spoiler alert!), but he couldn't resist caring about someone other than himself. Personally, I find that idea an interesting one and something that gives a character 3 dimensions.
Despite this thread, Garrett is (
and should remain) an anti-hero and a flawed character, but because he has a sense of justice, I don't think it'd be out of character for him to temporarily form a relationship or connection with someone - only to either lose them or be betrayed by them.
:angel:xx:ebil:
