What (or who) does Garrett care about ... apart from money? - by chagnampra
chagnampra on 25/5/2009 at 16:37
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
There are a lot of things they could do that I think would be cheesy or just wrong, but romance is not one of them.
I've said before that i'd like T4 to be a dark romance. It worked really well in Max Payne 2 and Batman 2 (arguably the only good thing about that film). If it were dark and tortured enough it could work, even if it was with Viktoria (potential high cheese factor there though). Garrett's internal monologue would have to be perfectly crafted though, and the cutscenes would have to be perfect.
I agree, it would have to be dark and far from straight-forward!
:sly: xx
Dia on 25/5/2009 at 16:51
Quote Posted by FriendlyStranger
"love interest/relationship" is so mainstream, I mean almost everyone's live circles around it - could't we at least leave it out for one or two characters in games/books/films. ..... part of Garretts character is his total independence from other people - heck he makes fun out of Basso and Jenivere in T2.
If you take this part out of his personality, you maybe make him more believable, but also less interesting, because he gets conventional then.
I agree with you FS. If I want romance I'll just go watch Twilight (again :o ). ;)
Quote Posted by chagnampra
- but how about he makes a connection with someone which goes against all his instincts to remain detatched from human relationships?
I kind of had the impression that that's what happened with Viktoria. I had the feeling that Garrett cared more deeply for her than he wanted to or than he knew was good for him. That was enough of a 'love interest' for me. Garrett's basic nature is
not to trust
anybody. And I think maybe after the whole incident with Viktoria his mistrust of people in general was just magnified. 'Course, I could have been reading things into that relationship that others didn't think was there, but sometimes the hopeless romantic in me takes over. (I
hate it when that happens!!!) ;)
rainynight65 on 25/5/2009 at 17:01
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I've said before that i'd like T4 to be a dark romance. It worked really well in Max Payne 2 and Batman 2 (arguably the only good thing about that film).
That point is highly arguable ;)
rainynight65 on 25/5/2009 at 17:12
Quote Posted by chagnampra
If the story mostly revolves around Garrett doing favours for people he doesn't care two hoots about, his independent spirit doesn't count for anything other than the need to increase his wealth. Maybe that's good enough for some games, but it's only good for a few levels.
If he ends up being blackmailed / framed into a specific course of action, his motivation is set by having no choice, with the 2nd part of that scenario likely being revenge.
If it's about saving a whole city, does that situation become too impersonal for Garrett? He's not a superhero. Why should he care? How about saving / protecting just one person, someone who matters to him in some way?
There's definite potential in forming connections, storywise - despite his personal reluctance to be dependent on anyone or anything. Remember the film LEON? It may have led to trouble for him (spoiler alert!), but he couldn't resist caring about someone other than himself. Personally, I find that idea an interesting one and something that gives a character 3 dimensions.
Despite this thread, Garrett is (
and should remain) an anti-hero and a flawed character, but because he has a sense of justice, I don't think it'd be out of character for him to temporarily form a relationship or connection with someone - only to either lose them or be betrayed by them.
:angel:xx:ebil:
Look, I am generally with you. A whole game of aimless thievery will probably get boring rather quickly, and it won't make for much of a story either. I would like to see the game start with 3, maybe 4 missions where thieving is the main objective. They could start building the story with that - hear rumours while eavesdropping on guards or citizens, find notes while robbing some rich people's mansion... that sort of stuff. Personally I think that the previous games went objective-centered very quickly - obtain certain items in order to drive the story forward. Finding the balance is probably difficult though.
As far as the allegiance/connection/relationship go... lose them or be betrayed by them sounds a bit cheesy to me - again. Because that's the twist you expect. Here's an idea: why not use the little girl from the end of Thief 3 as a connection? She could be a junior taffer, get a little guidance from Garrett but generally be on her own - until she bites off more than she can chew one day and gets caught. Then someone could be using her to try and get to Garrett - either to finally put an end to his 'career' or to use him as a means to an end - Blackmail. That could form the first part of a storyline - being forced to help a purpose that may be entirely against his conscience. The second part then could be some form of revenge plot, or setting things straight - contain the damage, right some wrongs and eventually putting Mr Blackmailer out of his misery.
Yes, that also has a cheesy undertone. It will probably be rather difficult to pull something like this off without being cheesy in at least some way. A plot like this needs a lot of crafting and refining. But it is possible (I think).
chagnampra on 25/5/2009 at 17:13
Quote Posted by Dia
I kind of had the impression that that's what happened with Viktoria. I had the feeling that Garrett cared more deeply for her than he wanted to or than he knew was good for him. That was enough of a 'love interest' for me. Garrett's basic nature is
not to trust
anybody. And I think maybe after the whole incident with Viktoria his mistrust of people in general was just magnified. 'Course, I could have been reading things into that relationship that others didn't think was there, but sometimes the hopeless romantic in me takes over. (I
hate it when that happens!!!) ;)
Yeah, I know what you mean - perhaps that aspect of his personality has already been explored. I'm intrigued to know where they'll take the character in the new game, though. If, indeed, Garrett DOES return?!! Who knows, we may have a completely new protagonist ... an apprentice?
chagnampra on 25/5/2009 at 17:35
Quote Posted by rainynight65
Here's an idea: why not use the little girl from the end of Thief 3 as a connection? She could be a junior taffer, get a little guidance from Garrett but generally be on her own - until she bites off more than she can chew one day and gets caught. Then someone could be using her to try and get to Garrett - either to finally put an end to his 'career' or to use him as a means to an end - Blackmail. That could form the first part of a storyline - being forced to help a purpose that may be entirely against his conscience. The second part then could be some form of revenge plot, or setting things straight - contain the damage, right some wrongs and eventually putting Mr Blackmailer out of his misery.
Nice ideas - I definitely think the little girl could provide the bridge to a new game and a new story :)
Taffer36 on 25/5/2009 at 17:56
I definitely agree with the idea of keeping Garrett an anti-hero, too. I feel like a lot of TTLG'ers have kind of labeled him as a man of justice/morals, but the good anti-hero is the one that surprises you with how his actions might be different from that of the player (and how you're forced to carry out their whim since you're in the confines of a video game).
That's no excuse for being one-dimensional, of course. A love interest is the most obvious but it needs to be done well/in a unique way. Maybe not an outright love interest, but someone he cares for, like the girl from the end of TDS? Maybe Keeper Orland (was that the one who he was willing to talk to)? Here's an idea - with the Keepers out of power, the Mages are now trying to learn the glyphs for some sort of scheme. One by one the Keepers are getting killed or kidnapped, and Garrett and Orland are working together to find out why. The first few missions of the campaign would deal with a wealthy aristocrat who's blackmailing Garrett (rainynight65's idea) by kidnapping the girl, but upon further investigation Garrett and Orland find that the aristocrat is funding the Mages and he ends up dead. The Mages backstabbed him because he learned too much, blah blah blah, Garrett and Orland must stop them.
Hmm... was it Orland? I think Orland might have been the douchey one.
SubJeff on 25/5/2009 at 18:14
If Garrett has taken that girl in he could be her guardian and be attached to her, in his own distant way. But a woman he is into would be fine, even if it turned out that she was using ebil magic to lure him and is revealed at the end.
Tail on 25/5/2009 at 18:42
"You've had your eye on Basso the Boxman's sister for a while now. If you break him out of Cragscleft, she'll probably be VERY grateful."
FriendlyStranger on 25/5/2009 at 18:47
Quote Posted by rainynight65
As far as the allegiance/connection/relationship go... lose them or be betrayed by them sounds a bit cheesy to me - again. Because that's the twist you expect. Here's an idea: why not use the little girl from the end of Thief 3 as a connection? She could be a junior taffer, get a little guidance from Garrett but generally be on her own - until she bites off more than she can chew one day and gets caught. Then someone could be using her to try and get to Garrett - either to finally put an end to his 'career' or to use him as a means to an end - Blackmail. That could form the first part of a storyline - being forced to help a purpose that may be entirely against his conscience. The second part then could be some form of revenge plot, or setting things straight - contain the damage, right some wrongs and eventually putting Mr Blackmailer out of his misery.
Yeah, nice - I could cope with that approach, also the thing with Keeper Orland Taffer36 mentioned sounds promising. But when doing something ie for Orland Garrett should always have some backthoughts how he could turn it into profit for him...
