What (or who) does Garrett care about ... apart from money?

Platinumoxicity on 22/6/2009 at 10:52

Quote Posted by FriendlyStranger

This whole beeing a keeper, accepting the prophecies - nah, that just didn't work out for me. That was no development as you call it it was an inconsistency.

That same thing struck on me. I was all "WTF?" when Garrett said to Artemus something like: "How many loops do I have to jump through to be allowed to hear the propecies?" That moment felt like someone had possessed Garrett and was speaking with his voice. I would never have figured that Garrett, of all people, would be so eager to read their stupid books that he would risk his life stealing some worthless artifacts to get to read them. It didn't make sense to me at all. :confused:

Morte on 22/6/2009 at 11:52

Quote Posted by FriendlyStranger

This whole beeing a keeper, accepting the prophecies - nah, that just didn't work out for me. That was no development as you call it it was an inconsistency.

It's an "inconsistency" that has its roots in Thief 2 in that case:

Quote:

Garrett: All this? It was written?
Keeper: All.
Garrett: Viktoria's death... and Karras... was it written? In your books?
Keeper: All is... as it was written.
Garrett: And there's more?
Keeper: Yes.
Garrett: Tell me.

You might argue that they didn't pull it off very well, but it seems pretty clear to me that it was a direction they were planning to take the character when they started making the first sequel.

Beleg Cúthalion on 22/6/2009 at 12:15

And by the way, I would have liked a more subtle and intelligent storyline myself; the Clocktower thing and also Gamall could have been a lot more complex, but it's not like I think the whole story was messed up or full of misinterpretations.

Unfortunately (and offtopic) we know almost nothing about how TDS was supposed to be originally. Knowing some of the issues the developers had to fight with I'd say that both the mission design (i.e. architecture, general style) and the story are those things that survived best - of course music and voice actors as well.

FriendlyStranger on 22/6/2009 at 12:23

Quote Posted by Morte

It's an "inconsistency" that has its roots in Thief 2 in that case:

You might argue that they didn't pull it off very well, but it seems pretty clear to me that it was a direction they were planning to take the character when they started making the first sequel.

--- I see your point, but there is still a difference between beeing curious ("tell me more" --> maybe to get own profit out of this info /How can I -Garrett use these prophecies...") and accepting to be the full scale One-And-Only Keeper. TDS was somehow "off" the "Thief road" if you ask me. In TDS,TMA you had the feeling Garrett did everything more or less for himself. (If Karras destroys the city, Garrett would also be history...) With TDS you had the feeling to be forced to go on a mission, which had hardly anything to do with Garretts plans. It was an altruistic ride through a story, which was much to self pleasant.

The initial plans of LG (I once read that on an UK mag) where called
Thief: The Golden Age. That suggests quite another direction after TMA than the Gamall / Keeper story then present in TDS.

Jah on 22/6/2009 at 13:52

Quote Posted by FriendlyStranger

By accepting the prophecies, I mostly meant that Garrett has finally decided to face the facts. In TDP and TMA, he tried to run from the prophecies and deny his part in them, but they all became reality anyway. In TDS, he has resigned to the fact that the prophecies, and therefore his fate, can't be avoided, so he might as well play along with them - if only to get the Keepers off his back once and for all. Garrett didn't know at the beginning what would happen to Orland, Artemus and the others, so I don't think he was consciously planning to become the True Keeper.

jtr7 on 22/6/2009 at 17:31

Simple, guys. Garrett hated being nagged and followed by the Keepers and their prophecies that always talked about him. He didn't want to believe the glyphs were way ahead of his every move. At the end of TMA, he decided to read these damned prophecies for himself, to tackle what pisses him off about the Keepers head on. He knew the Keepers were always nudgung and pushing him in directions according to the prophecies, so by skipping the middle man, he could feel in more control of his life. At the end of TDS he got what he wanted, and there would be no more glyphs detailing out his every move before he got there, no Keepers to keep reminding him of the past he seriously wanted to get away from. He did what no Keeper would or could do and kept the Keeper Order balanced by wiping their corrupt order out. He did what a true keeper would do, and didn't have a worry about losing everything for the sake of the balance. The One True Keeper did what no Keeper was going to do, thus, only he remained true. Now it's over. No more glyphs. No more prophecies (which ended before Garrett began to place the Sentients in their receptacles, blinding the Keepers to what was coming, for The City's own good).

The One True Keeper did his ultimate task, now he must be reminded of the truism: "Be careful what you wish for. It just may come true." Garrett's in trouble, folks. Ever since he was taken in by the Keepers, his life has been guided by the Glyphs, whether he wanted that or not. Always a Keeper to manipulate or encourage him and saving The City three times, from two nightmares and a genocide. Now, there is no guidance, no prophecies (the prophecies did not foretell beyond the demise of the Keepers), no one to nudge him in any direction, and there are a lot of angry and imbalanced ex-Keepers around.

Phyre on 23/6/2009 at 05:06

Quote Posted by Jah

I think the notable thing about Garrett compared to many other video game characters is that he develops during the series.

I like this explanation, though I think I'd have to look through the games again to see if this is well supported.

I think his attitude regarding the prophecies certainly changes throughout the games. From 'Get lost' at the end of the first, to being much more interested at the end of TMA, and throughout TDS.

A lot of people seem unconvinced as to how interested Garrett would be in reading the prophecies. All I can say, is that if I found out that there were prophecies accurately predicting my actions, I'd jump through at least a few hoops to get a look at them. I suspect Garrett, would be even more intrigued/irritated by their existence, seeing as how dead set his is on doing things his way. I suspect that he'd be rather more reluctant to jump through these hoops than he was portrayed to be in TDS, and probably even more pissed when he is expected to make nice to the factions he transgressed against while jumping through said hoops, but I think the end result would be the same.

I think that you make a good argument jtr7, this would make an interesting storyline to follow. As long as Garrett takes every opportunity to snarkily remind the "angry and imbalanced ex-Keepers", just who saved them from the monstrosity their order had brought into existence.
After they had convicted him of murder no less.:nono:

Also:

Quote:

Originally posted by jtr7
Always a Keeper to manipulate or encourage him and saving The City three times, from two nightmares and a genocide.

Which is which though? :confused:

jtr7 on 23/6/2009 at 05:45

Gamall and Constantine didn't want genocide, only Karras did.

Gamall wanted immortality, wanted to grant it to the other Keepers that would want it, and to eliminate secrets to whatever extent that might mean. Since immortality would mean taking life from other people, it would be a bloody mess, and nightmarish, but not genocide, more like serial killing.

Constantine wanted to destroy the Hammers' and their works, which is a massacre, but not the killing of a race, which the pagans seem to be. He wanted to Project Dark-ness and chaos over all The City, and make people fear the darkness, and return to worshiping him, and calling on him for protection, and to spark their imaginations as in ancient times. A nightmare world.

Phyre on 23/6/2009 at 05:53

Quote Posted by jtr7

Gamall and Constantine didn't want genocide, only Karras did.

Hmm, all right. I guess it's just that genocide seems like such a mild word for what Karras was trying to accomplish. More like omnicide, or something.

Edit: Okay, so I'm nitpicking here.

jtr7 on 23/6/2009 at 05:59

Haha! Touché!