LarryG on 3/8/2017 at 18:14
Better idea! Now we just need a programmer to implement it.
Nameless Voice on 3/8/2017 at 18:36
So, let me get this straight: the fan patch for Thief 2 installs a non-canon texture mod by default?
And also, possibly (needs confirmation) places it into an uber_mod_path so it it overrides all other resources from FMs?
That's terrible. If it's really doing that, we should get the mods to take the patcher down / unsticky the thread until such a time as it's fixed.
I guess the problem is that the people who are competent enough to spot this kind of thing are all the ones who don't use patchers and just install the games manually (or, never uninstall them in the first place), so the problem hasn't been properly noticed until now.
I went to a lot of trouble when making the EP, and collecting the EP2, to make sure that all the objects and textures both looked as close as possible to the originals, and also that FM resources would cleanly override them without issues. A lot of the other mods didn't go to that trouble, so I can just imagine the nightmare this could cause.
Allowing the FM selector to disallow mods is no solution either. That has its own set of problems, including not being able to make patches for FMs, let alone a lot of annoyed players forced to play with ugly, low-res original objects just to preserve the author's "artistic vision".
LarryG on 3/8/2017 at 19:00
TafferPatcher puts it in the mod_path configuration variable, not the uber_mod_path. But when the mod is not like EP2 and the textures included are distinctly different than the OM textures, or there are additional frames for moving textures which cause the fm to exceed the number of handles allowed, then there is no simple solution.
I was not advocating that the selector prevent anything. Only that it warn and offer an option to disable the problematic mods for that fm only. If the player wants to go ahead, then fine. (Shouldn't patched be loaded via the fm.cfg file?)
Yandros on 3/8/2017 at 19:03
I agree with you NV that fixing TP is the best solution. It should either install the EP/EP2 or no mods by default.
Larry, patches are usually handled via DML files, not fm.cfg. I don't know if a disallow_mod config variable could be done such that it prevented mods but allowed DMLs.
Nameless Voice on 3/8/2017 at 19:14
Right. It's really easy to make a mess by using more textures than the original models did, or different filenames, even if you're not intentionally trying to change the appearance of things. I ran into that problem a lot in the EP. I think there are still a few instances of that kind of thing in there, but thankfully not that many.
The problem, of course, is all those people who've already installed their game with TP. Not really sure what can be done about them.
LarryG on 3/8/2017 at 19:44
Quote Posted by Yandros
Larry, patches are usually handled via DML files, not fm.cfg. I don't know if a disallow_mod config variable could be done such that it prevented mods but allowed DMLs.
I was thinking that the fm.cfg file should point to the dml files. They are FM specific, and so shouldn't be identified with the mods.
Nameless Voice on 3/8/2017 at 20:07
But the FM wouldn't know which DML files would exist at the time of publishing. The whole idea is that a DML could fix problems in a published FM, as a patch, so users wouldn't have to re-download the entire patched version and restart their game.
voodoo47 on 3/8/2017 at 20:14
Quote Posted by john9818a
Is it really necessary to use Tafferpatcher? I simply installed Thief 2 and then I unzipped each version of NewDark into my Thief 2 folder as they were released. The only mod I added was the water texture. Everything else is stock and I never have any issues with gameplay or how a mission looks.
that's a bit too much for a lot of people. also, the fixed resources and hires skies are quite nice to have, and there is no other user friendly way of getting those.
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
So, let me get this straight: the fan patch for Thief 2 installs a non-canon texture mod by default?
And also, possibly (needs confirmation) places it into an uber_mod_path so it it overrides all other resources from FMs?
no, NTEX is deselected by default, whoever has it loaded selected it by choice. also yeah, only mod paths are used.
did someone (apart from myself) try to contact DJ Riff?
Yandros on 3/8/2017 at 20:19
Quote Posted by voodoo47
no, NTEX is deselected by default, whoever has it loaded selected it by choice. also yeah, only mod paths are used.
Well that kind of changes the dialogue here a bit then, at least with respect to TP and DJ Riff. If no mods are selected by default, then there's really not much else we can do aside from warn people in big red letters in the readme (and the release thread which will get more traction probably) to disable all mods before playing the mission.
There's an old truism in software development regarding UI design - you can and should do only so much to try and save users from themselves.
voodoo47 on 3/8/2017 at 20:31
pretty much.
still, kicking NTEX from the patcher completely (and adding a bunch of other tweaks as suggested earlier) probably is a good idea, so if someone knows how to get hold of DJ Riff.. seems like he hasn't been around since the last TP release.
