What's the deal with Patient No. 3?

shadowseeker777 on 15/5/2007 at 06:41

In the Cradle, why does Patient 3, the Morgue sleepwalker, have their cell outfitted with chains? Somewhere they said that its a replica of the crime scene. What the fuck? What kind of crime scene is adorned with chains? And for that reason, why sleepwalk in the morgue or carry an unlit candle. Odd. All the other inmates make sense with their habits and oddities, but this one's got me confused. I'm sure this will always be a mystery as probably intended by Null. But just wondering if anyone knew. Giddy-up.

DJ Riff on 15/5/2007 at 08:31

I think there are chains just to prevent him from sleepwalking.
AFAIK 'murder scene' was in Bird catcher's chamber.

Info about all patients can be found in HH*file.sch files. Not all of them appear in the game.

marshall banana on 15/5/2007 at 11:53

I always thought room number 3 was the creepiest. Probably because of that heartbeat.

shadowseeker777 on 15/5/2007 at 17:13

You're right about the bird girl having the cell outfitted like the crime scene. Don't know how I got them confused.

But about your theory on the chains, wouldn't it be easier just to lock the door? I mean they have locks on them. Chains seem like a bit overkill and more of a nuisance in the long run - especially if the staff wants to visit every now and again to do some more water treatments; jumping around chains to get to the patient would be a bit annoying.

That heartbeat is fucked up though, must've been a memorable patient for the Cradle to pulse out their heartbeat.

Chains still a mystery to me and the candle seems a bit odd - other than the off chance that its connected to the sleepwalking phenomenon. Fine with it remaining a mystery though, shouldn't know too much about the Cradle.

here's what I pulled up on No. 3
Case No. 3: S. Izen
Patient History
Entry One: Delivered by City Watch under suspicion of murder. Patient has marked episodes of narcolepsy, during which sleepwalking and other behaviors occur, with no recollection of events when awakened. Admitted for observation and treatment. - Doctor Pettihue.
Entry Two: Water treatments having good effect. Unclear whether the treatment itself is sound, or if the subject is merely feigning proper behavior in order to avoid further submergings. Patient allowed to keep an unlit candle. - Doc P.
Entry Three: Patient caught sleepwalking in the Morgue. If patient is developing an affinity for the Morgue – could be useful to withhold access as punishment. – Doc P.

jtr7 on 16/5/2007 at 20:21

1. Izen could very well be insane, so the behavior should be odd.
2. If Izen has a tendency to carry a candle while sleepwalking, it's a good thing it's unlit.
3. To a sleepwalker, the lack of a flame isn't important as he/she isn't necessarily using it to see his/her way in the real world, but is perceiving only the SURreal world.
4. The Morgue may not be a Morgue to Izen in the dreamworld.
5. It could simply be a wish to die.
6. Izen's a ghoulish type.
7. Izen's flirting with ideas of necrophilia.
8. Izen IS insane.

:erg: :p

And the chains are so doctors and attendants can interact with Izen between somnambulatory states. With narcolepsy, the states of unconsciousness can occur at random, but are usually triggered, often by excitement. Izen's sleepwalking begins during narcoleptic episodes, so the chains hold "Patient No. 3" in place until the staff are done with their "work."

shadowseeker777 on 16/5/2007 at 22:14

I can see where you are coming from with the candle. Makes sense especially if he is so compelled to the Morgue, something to "light" his way to his "dark" desires. Maybe even a way he could feign normalcy - yeah, I'm sleepwalking to the Morgue, but at least I'm carrying a candle; I'm not a total freak. The necrophilia could possibly explain why he is only suspicion of murder, he might've been near the crime scene to get aroused by the corpse. Bundy would keep the decapitated heads of his victims and get aroused by the changing of the skin color as they decomposed and, of course, pleasure himself. Dahmer and Gein were full blown necrophiliacs. Combining those factors, Izen must be flirting with or have experimented with. The chains might also be something Izen constructed himself, or got permission from the staff to do, to try to stop himself from going to the necrophilia side of things (which would explain the crudity of how they are set up). Or, and I hate to say, but the staff may have crudely set them up to possibly stay up late nights and peek in on him and see what he does when he sleep walks as a tease. Thanks for the feedback, there'll never be a concrete answer, but this all definetely makes plausible sense.

ercles on 17/5/2007 at 07:27

Maybe the chains were just put there by the game designers to look creepy?

I'm not sure there's any mention of necrophelia in any Thief game, so it's completely retarded to suddenly read it into this case. Once again, maybe he "developed an affinity with the morgue" because it's a really creepy thing to do. This is TDS that we are playing here, the game that everyone seems to have accepted was under large time constraints during development. I fail to believe that the level designer (who's name escapes me at the moment) had time to sit down and completely flesh out every detail in theory before creating the Cradle.

Yes, it is a very scary level, as it seems every man and his dog has pointed out already, and yes, it scared the pants of me too. But one of the true artful parts of this level is that there aren't answers to most of your questions, and although it is great to use your imagination as that is what makes it so frightening, it seems kinda fruitless to try and pin down the exact meaning of every part of the cradle...

jtr7 on 17/5/2007 at 18:31

Wrench in the works.

People will have their opinions. It's enough just to say you hope someone isn't confusing opinion with fact. These speculation threads are nearly always ruined by someone belittling the speculators. We're not gonna stop thinking like we do. It's part of who we are. We have fun doing this. Being mean in these threads has the opposite effect than intended. So, have fun, or please stick to lurking and let the thought-exercise run its course.

"...completely retarded..." :nono:

How about a constructive "I disagree?"

Here's Jordan Thomas:
"Jordan Thomas: I’m also responsible for some of the newer abominations, and I’ll say nary a word, because the unknown is inherently more horrific. Enjoy."

"Our point-of-origin was the word ‘dread’. I like to define it as that quintessential ‘threshold’ sensation which whispers rather than shouts, warning you that you’re seven steps from the unspeakable. With that emotional shape in mind, I began to draft the design equivalent of the level’s ‘blueprints’. Suffice it to say, I took the process seriously."

"...the network of simulated possibilities is dense enough that you cease poking holes in the world-fabric, and begin actively filling them yourself! Your imagination becomes inextricably intertwined with the content you’re consuming, and you become a partial architect of your own reactions. The game is then far more likely to resonate with you, carving out a permanent niche among your long-term memories. And that, of course, is the honour for which we developers strive." Which these speculation threads serve to provide expression for.

"The Cradle is the synthetic offspring of dozens of actual, existing Victorian hospitals and reputedly haunted buildings. All the misery, malpractice and dementia that have been ascribed to those places are seen here through a proportionally exaggerated lens. I read reams of patient and staff interviews, scoured countless articles on historical mental-health treatment practises, compiled a huge reference archive of photographs taken by urban explorers who regularly break into abandoned asylums, and even visited a few locations myself....One story involved a patient who managed to escape into the storage wings of the asylum, and because of her eroded state-of-mind, she became lost and succumbed to starvation. The place was such a teeming ‘snake pit’ that she wasn’t missed, and the stain from her body seeped permanently into the wood. Another involved a man who was committed as a toddler. Decades later, when asked to sign his own name, he drew a rough silhouette of the hospital. The place was so omnipresent and dominant a force in his life that it eclipsed his identity. The Cradle was built out of that sort of cheery material....Among the films that helped inspire it were Jacob’s Ladder, Session 9, and The Devil’s Backbone. Books included From Hell, House of Leaves, and The Shining. My game influences are innumerable, but two most prominent were the Silent Hill series and the System Shock series, to which The Cradle owes a great deal. 'I want my scares to leave scars...'"

And from Kieran Gillan:
"All of The Cradle’s actors, from the malfunctioning lights to the shambling undead themselves are tied into a central choreographer object. It’s a kind of invisible ‘puppet master’ that tells them how to behave in the real world, and in the world beyond (which is comprised of the asylum’s fragmented dreams of its former days)....Each object family has a special relationship to the rest, which can manifest during gameplay when they happen to collide with each other."

shadowseeker777 on 17/5/2007 at 20:52

I'm a little confused why "completely retarded" and "fruitless" is being thrown out. I thought I made it clear that I was simply wondering what others thought on the matter regarding patient 3. All the other patients and their room set up and "toys" made perfect logical sense to me and no 3 just threw me off a little so I wanted to get some other perspectives. I said before that I'm fully aware there'll never be a complete answer, as Null (Jordan Thomas: the creator of this brilliant mission) has said in numerous threads on this forum, so I wasn't planning for an answer, just wanted opinions. Ironically, why are you responding to this thread if you find it so "fruitless"? And since this is my first post in years (I used to be a regular member here), why don't you cut me some slack? As for me, I'm happy with thinking Izen as a borderline necrophiliac and the chains and unlit candle being external manifestations (that he must've had help with from the staff on in one way or another) of the intenal conflict and issues raging inside of him. Nothing concrete, of course, but it certainly alleviates the confusion I had before because Null doesn't seem to be the guy who wouldn't think everything through. I'll come back in another few months and post another "fruitless" and "completely retarded" thread. ;)

Lady Taffer on 18/5/2007 at 05:55

ercles is having guy PMS. Just ignore him. ;)

I think this is an interesting thread, actually. I've always wondered about patient number 3 and these are some interesting theories. Necrophelia?. .Wouldn't put it past him.

Now patient number 5 . .. er, I think it's 5. . the one who's allowed to fix the gears in the electroshock room for good behavior? Wha's his deal? There's almost nothing said about him.

Patient number 2: The one that I always take the "toy" from and go into the past with. . he was found eating a meal of "questionable origin" and not allowed to use sharp eating implements and there's what looks like a human bone in his room. . .I always figured he was a cannibal. :p

. . now why is there a little stuffed-person punching bag hanging in King No One's cell? Mysteries abound. . .