Zillameth on 29/7/2007 at 17:56

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Yep, another thread of "what's your favourite..." variety. I searched and found a few threads with similar titles in the archive, but they all issued open questions, whereas my approach is more focused. Unfortunately, this means I have to provide definitions. I hope you'll find patience to read all this.


We all like at least one part of "Thief", otherwise we would be elsewhere, but I'd like to know what we like them for. Modern games are usually seen as gameplay combined with stories. There's been plenty of discussion on stories so far, but when talking about gameplay, people tend to either focus on smallest details or plunge into abstract ruminations on "atmosphere". To say "a mission should be good, and that's what counts" is to make a good point, but it's not very helpful. That's why I'd like to try and focus on a special kind of particulars: game mechanics.

Hopefully, the following list is a complete enumeration of distinguishable gameplay modes from the original series. I didn't take FMs into account, simply because there are so many of them, and I've played only a fraction. Suggestions are welcome, but please stick with the original list when you answer the main question.

The question itself is: which of the following modes of gameplay do you like best? Which do you like least? Choosing multiple entries is allowed, as is rating each mode individually (in that case please stick with 1-5 scale, with 5 being "I love it", and 3 being "I'm indifferent / ambivalent / undecided").

In case of doubts, please assume the inquirer is not an idiot. For instance, even though first type is named "Burglary", it doesn't mean other mission types can't require player to break and enter. Also, many modes can be combined together.


The list goes as follows:

1. Burglary. Mission layout if focused on convenient connection between key locations, and typically resembles rich mansion, uniformly saturated with loot. Usually, there is a number of unarmed "bystanders", who run for help when confronted. Security is relatively loose, but it is likely that at least one NPC takes an unexpected route at some point (mansion is a "living place", therefore people go about their business). There may be specified "special loot" present, but the point of the mission is to steal everything of value. Examples: Bafford's, Running Interference, Seaside Mansion.

2. Infiltration. Mission takes place in a well guarded facility with layout focused on increased security (guard posts, bottlenecks, small number of points of entry, etc.). Guards tend to be vigilant and well organised, but predictable. Patrols and guard posts may be deliberately designed to produce "riddles", which can be solved by performing a correct combination of moves (wait for guard A, go to alcove, hide in shadow, wait for guard B, knock guard B out, drag guard B into alcove, wait for guard C, go to closet, hide in shadow etc.). The point of the mission is to get past security into protected area. Examples: Cragscleft, Bank, Clocktower.

3. Overt Infiltration. Mission features a public area, where the player can move about freely, and potential enemies behave in a non-hostile manner. There is also a set of blow-up conditions - failing to meet them removes player's cover and turns some or all NPCs hostile. The initial lack of confrontation allows the player to pass security, which is otherwise very effective. Meeting mission goals may require player to "lose their cover" and proceed on changed terms. Examples: Undercover, Keeper library.

4. Undetectable Infiltration. Mission is designed with a particular play style called "ghosting" in mind. In most cases player cannot be seen by nor bring harm to enemies. Variations are possible: an alarm cannot be triggered, guards cannot become nervous, player cannot allow others to hear them, absence of an object cannot be noticed, and so on. The point is to force player to act without ability to extend their zone of safety (that is, an area clear of enemies). Player has to evade and/or distract enemies, rather than neutralize them. Examples: Shoalsgate, Casing the Joint, Forbidden Library.

5. Exploration. Mission design is focused on creating impression of unfamiliarity, usually by putting player in unusual territory, which exhibits some unique features. Moving through such territory is impeded, due to lack of understanding of the rules that govern it, hence the presence of enemies is usually sparse, at least at mission's beginning. The point of the mission is to learn the aforementioned rules, or the general theme of the mission's location. Sometimes the formal goal is as simple as getting from one point to another, and there is little actual danger. Note: exploration is a general theme in pretty much every computer game. When someone is playing Thief for the first time, even such a common design as Bafford's mansion is unknown to them, and an element of exploration exists. But then there is also exploration as a deliberate attempt to confront player with something they haven't seen yet, and are unlikely to see again. Exploration missions can also be considered the most story-based ones. Examples: Trail of Blood, Shalebridge Cradle.

6. Tail. Player is required to follow an NPC without being noticed. Failure is usually declared, when the distance between player and NPC exceeds certain threshold. Obstacles (such as loud floor or locked gates), additional hostile traffic (such as city watchmen on patrol), as well as caution on the part of the NPC followed, can all attribute to hinder player's progress. Examples: Assasins, Courier.

7. Escape. Player starts in a disadvantageous situation, such as lack of equipment, restricted movement, or immediate danger. The primary objective is to remedy the most important of these threats, usually by finding and retreating to an improvised zone of safety. Quick thinking, calmness and good reflexes are often required at this point. The next objective is to gradually improve player's condition, for instance by aquiring means to neutralize enemies. Escape is "infiltration a'rebours", because player starts in what can be seen as a protected area, and then attempts to pass security in order to reach an external location. Examples: Escape, Ambush, Pavelock Prison.

8. Ambush. Player is required to dispatch an indicated person or group. Note: in terms of game mechanics the difference between death and unconciousness is purely narrative, because in Thief unconcious enemies cannot be woken up. Player's character is an inferior warrior to most guards, and is typically outnumbered with the ratio of 1 to 3. Therefore, exerting open violence requires at least some planning and resourcefulness. Often player is constrained by time and changing circustances. Examples: Strange Bedfellows on Expert (player has to kill all bugbeasts), Kidnap.

9. Loot Hunt. As in case of Burglary, the point of the mission is to find as many valuables as possible, but the main obstacle is not the presence of security, but the loot being hidden. This is achieved either by putting loot in secret areas, or in places where the player is unlikely to look (such as top of a bookshelf or under a chair). The distinguishing feature of the loot hunt is lack of hints. Player is simply required to be very thorough. Examples: Haunted Cathedral, Keeper Compound.

10. Oldschool Adventure. Mission features a relatively elaborate puzzle disguised as part of the narrative. Based on observation of the game world, player is required to understand cause-and-effect dependencies between game objects, and then apply them to change game world's state. This usually gives them access to new areas or mission critical objects. Most puzzles follow unique rules, which player is supposed to discover during the course of mission (explicitness of hints varies). Examples: Return to the Cathedral, First City Bank and Trust, Cradle.

11. Pharaoh's Tomb. Gameplay is somewhat reversed: threat is hidden from the player, who in turn has to be vigilant and watch for telltale signs of danger. Danger usually means traps, although NPCs can also work in a similar manner, if they are invisible, inaudible, or posess other advantages that give them initiative over player. Malicious setup of standard gameplay elements can also constitute a trap (one might go as far as to say that tile floor is a trap in itself). Player's advance is slow and cautious, and regular NPC are often absent, as they would likely fall into their own traps. Examples: Bonehoard, First City Bank and Trust.

12. Cityscape. Mission is located in a maze of corridors ("streets") neighboured by a number of "missions within a mission", that is - very small areas governed by a different gameplay mode (most commonly: Burglary). The maze is filled with some amount of traffic, unassociated with mission's main narrative. This traffic consists of bystanders who may, but don't have to be hostile toward player. Enemies are also present, but additional rules of engagement apply. For instance, bystanders and enemies may be hostile, neutral or allied with each other. Player may be considered a bystander unless they perform a hostile act, such as theft or robbery. The point of the mission is to get from one point to another, with "missions within a mission" working as optional subquests. Other than that, player is usually free to explore the area at their own pace. Countrary to Exploration, the general theme is familiar, and the main narrative is diluted, but complex topology gives many oportunities for discovery. Examples: Assasins, Ambush, nearly all interludes in TDS.

13. Cross-country. This may, but doesn't need to be a variant of Cityscape mode. The distinguishing feature is that mission is located in rough terrain (such as rooftops in "Life of the Party"). This is typically used to force player to apply standard game elements in a non-standard way. Movement enchancing tools, such as rope arrows, are in frequent use. Additionally, player is required to be aware of game world mechanics and their character's abilities. The presence of NPCs is reduced, due to their limited ability to traverse rough terrain. Examples: Cragscleft, Life of the Party, Clocktower.

14. Undead invasion. Mission is populated with undead enemies, such as Haunts and Zombies. The undead in Thief are very expensive to kill, and invulnerable to some attacks, which means player often has to resort to ghosting. The narrative of Undead Invasions routinely attempts to induce fear in the player. Examples: Haunted Cathedral, Abysmal Gale.

15. Robot Invasion. Mission is populated with Mechanist machines, such as Watchful Eyes and Combat Bots. These robots usually feature a single weak spot, which provides one single way to get rid of them easily. Otherwise, robots are even more difficult to destroy than zombies. They also have unique advantages, such as heavy ranged weaponry, enchanced senses, or ability to turn on an alarm instantly. The common disadvantage of robots is large amount of noise they produce. This almost completely deprives them of initiative. Examples: Soulforge.

16. Monster Invasion. Mission is populated with various species of animals and sentient creatures. Usually they exhibit humanlike performance, but may differ significantly in one way or another. For instance, unique anatomy of spiders makes it difficult to stab them, and fire elementals light up their surroundings. As monsters are usually considered nonhumans, player has more freedom with confronting them. Examples: Lost City, Sunken Citadel.

poison_the_well on 29/7/2007 at 20:21

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1,Exploration
2,Escape

are my favorite types

but i do like a good tail mission even a old school style fan mission


i will play any type ofcourse those are just my favs

also a good Cross-country is fun if it has alot of secrets and ways to go like life of the party,but once i got to the objective area in that mission i was disapointed,getting there was way more fun,that was when the lady van vernon conversation came out,one of the top 10 thief conversations hands down

ganac on 30/7/2007 at 02:39

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5 City, Explore, Burg, Cross
4 Overt, Hunt, Tomb, Old
3 Inf, undead
2 Undet, robot, monster, escape
1 tail, ambush

I agree with poison. If the game is there I will obviously play it.
And zilla, don't give up after 1 day.

Melan on 30/7/2007 at 07:16

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Great typology, Zillameth! My answers (taking into account that any mission which resembles Thief1 gets a more favourable response while one that is restricted to Thief2 content will fare worse - I am allergic to the Victorian texture families):


At the moment, I have had enough of similar missions, so unless they are relatively painless, or extraordinarily well done, I rarely bother. My problem with recent examples of this form is the proliferation of story over gameplay: you get a lot of readables, a plot, and often nice architecture, but not enough interesting terrain (exceptions include the original Lord Bafford and Transitions in Chaos). 2.


It depends. As long as the mission isn't focused on being almost airtight where failures cost you your life (esp. if there is a no-kill objective), I am okay with it. Annoying terrain (the ever-present tile floors in the bank) is a major minus, while attention to fun patrol puzzles is a plus. 3.


I find this style really appealing, not just for the tactical and strategic challenges, but also that special dirty feeling of swiping a loot from display, then whistling innocently as a heavily armed guy tramples around ten seconds later. :D Of course, I suspect missions like this are kinda hard to make. 4.


I am heavily opposed to forced ghosting. I understand why others consider it the ultimate form of thieveing, but it isn't my cup of tea. I only play through similar missions if they are exceptional in all other aspects. Note that "Escape" missions - where you aren't able to clear areas but can manage if you get caught - are a much preferred alternative. 1.


I love exploration. It is hard to make a mission like this, since you can only use the same trick once, but if they are done, and done well, they become among the most memorable ever created. Sometimes it is architectural tricks, sometimes an unusual environment... sometimes they don't even play like Thief... but I love them. Some of my favourites include sperry's Brainchild (the oppressed feeling of running around in a... space station? Underground facility? ... is classic, as well as the uncertainty about your own identity and purposes... I loved how the mission came with NO documentation at all and just thrust you into its environment), frobber's Time outside of Time (alien environment with its own rules and solutions ahoy), but also Reversing the Order (outside the paradigm of the usual Thief FMs, and it manages to do right a much-maligned mission type: escort! :laff: ) or the classic Maw of Chaos. I also love missions by JIS (a very prolific Japanese FM-maker one time), not just for the otherworldy and non-standard settings, but exemplary use of light and shadow. UFO is probably my favourite of them. So 5.


As long as they are otherwise good, and aren't too hard, I like them. The highlight here, again, is Reversing the Order. With Assassins, I prefer the "return home alive" part. :thumb:


Although I don't like ghosting, escape missions can be the most suspenseful (it is the feeling of disempowerment), often much more effectively than missions stuffed with undead. However, I don't think Ambush is a very good escape mission (the gameplay doesn't differ significantly from any of the others before or after), while phase two in Midnight at Murkbell most definitely is. The very best of the best in my mind is Tears of Blood (dark, run-down environment, oppressive atmosphere, and lots of merciful shadows). And of course, the original Escape! is not too shabby.4.


I don't think this merits a category of its own (too few examples for starters), unless we redefine it as a mission where the player must take out (that is, kill) one or several persons in a heavily guarded environment. I have found that playing the assassin - getting by without a blackjack, and solving guard puzzles with a sword - is a whole lot more fun than some Thief fans would let you believe. :p Also, much harder than the standard gameplay. Once more, Reversing the Order gets high scores, while in Strange Bedfellows, the kill objective doesn't make it too different... except in the rat-ape warren where others may hear if you kill the bugbeasts. 5.


I strongly dislike missions where you have to play hide-and-seek with the mission designers. Well-hidden loot is okay, loot placed in logical but somewhat hardish locations is good, but when the entire mission is about this, I exit the game and load up another FM (also see: loot hunt, evidence hunt, tiny fucking switch hunt, etcetera :mad: ). As much as I enjoy Uncadonego's city missions, they are guilty of this error. On the other hand, Schattengilde's Dark Messiah is an outstanding example of getting it right (and of course also for many other reasons). 2.


Oh God, no. I suck at puzzles, and therefore, puzzles suck too. ;) Although I fail to see how Return to the Cathedral (otherwise one of my favourite FMs) applies. 1.


Good if done cleverly, and with appropriate foreshadowing (e.g. human remains or other tell-tale signs you can notice before running into the traps), really bad if produced by a frustrating gameplay device (e.g. tile floors everywhere!). Broadsword of Sheol is the best I can think of; Bonehoard is a lot of fun, too. 3 (with a wide variance).


This, to me, is the best a Thief mission can offer, and the environment where all features of the Dark engine come forward... and where all of its limitations (except the brush limit, sigh) can be forgiven, or even better, work for the gameplay (e.g. breaking long views produces convoluted architecture). Simply put, exploring complex environments is my preferred sort of fun. Great examples include Assassins (although the City here is a bit empty - but see Lorgan's Web for a superb remake), missions by the master of the form, Purah (Lampfire Hills, Calendra's Cistern, Calendra's Legacy), FMs from Uncadonego (a bit too Thief2-y, but great architecture), Life of the Party (and Lord Fishkill's, also giving an example of innovative gameplay devices), Rodamill, etc. Also, The Haunted Cathedral is near and dear to my heart. However, I often get turned off if the cityscape turns out to be flat and boring. Use those pyramid and wedge brushes, taffers! 5.


I am usually in favour, especially if there are a lot of simple-to medium difficulty climbing, mantling and rope arrowing challenges, and nooks and crannies. Life of the Party is the obvious candidate for a good design, but I didn't like Clocktower.


These missions have the potential to be classics, but just plopping down some hammer haunts never sufficed for good mission design. Quite the lesson. Also, undead invasions aren't always scary - at least I wasn't scared by Midnight in Murkbell and Dead of Winter, both great undead FMs. Inverted Manse and Return to the Cathedral do it right... and not just because there are a lot of undead. The Haunted Cathedral is another, often overlooked candidate, although less terror-inducing. 5 (again, if done well).


In theory, this mission type has a lot of potential. Regrettably, it has never been done as it should have been to my knowledge. Hence, a 3.


Hard to say, with so few missions released in this area. All I can say is that the burricks scared the crap out of me in the Bonehoard, and the fire elementals in The Lost City. So again, there is a lot of unexploited opportunity here, level builders... 3.

Zillameth on 30/7/2007 at 10:37

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Return to the Cathedral is an extreme, because hints are very explicit - the player is simply being told what to do. I gave it as an example, because whole mission is built around the Ritual of Consecration, which has the mechanic of Oldschool Adventure. It's not difficult to imagine a version with Brother Murus only crying "heeeeeelp meeeeee, freeeee myyyy soooooooull....", and other hints scattered over the place (the account of Murus' death in the tower, description of the course of the Ritual in the library, and so on).

Thanks for examples. :) I haven't played some of these missions, I guess I have some catching up to do.