Gambit on 9/10/2008 at 03:04
Maybe some extreme comparison could be made with the early years of the KKK sect.
They were a racist sect whose operations could enter in conflict with the local laws. But the fact was that some of the local authorities could be sadly in favour of the klan, even part of them, and decide to not intervene in their operations, or even offer some unofficial help. Many people knew what they did, and where either supportive or afraid of them.
jtr7 on 9/10/2008 at 03:15
Here's a bit:
[INDENT]M5NAVAN: "Commissioner deNavan -
I note with displeasure that again, one of my tough-boys has been
taken to Cragscleft. May I remind you of the substantial donations I
make to your office, such that I may 'pursue business unhindered by
idle scrutiny'? May I remind you, as well, of your predecessor's
unfortunate end? The rivers are so treacherous this time of year. I
trust that you will attend to this, and if the Hammers are too
difficult for your policemen, I trust as well that you will let me
know.
- Ramirez"[/INDENT]
And the Thieves Guild was making monthly payments to the sheriff preceeding Truart, as well as bribes to Deputy Meffan, Capt. Pearsall, and kickbacks to Constable Mahk and Magistrate Gilby. However, an attempt to bribe the Hammerites resulted in death.
Money or threat of torture/death seems to be how City authority operates.
Dussander on 9/10/2008 at 22:13
I've always thought the city watch were a recent addition to the city's security - that the Hammerites were naturally the main police force until Truart came along and started recruiting all types of unsavoury characters to become watchmen.
jtr7 on 9/10/2008 at 22:20
The City Watch were always there, just a smaller, quieter presence. Truart gave them a makeover and a new mission statement, his "new age", and there was a lot more money and backing from the wealthy Mechanists. He just did things significantly different. Previously, the City Watch were considered the Baron's, but Truart got carried away in the Baron's absence. Based on complaints from various characters. But yeah, he recruited from the organizations he shut down.
eagle17 on 10/10/2008 at 07:03
Right. City Watch used to be smaller presence, so they didn't have the capacity to catch every criminal around. So Hammerites were helping them in their own specific way by catching criminals and heretics, and City Watch approved of this because it made their job a bit easier. And with smaller manpower CW couldn't force Hammers to uphold the laws they were breaking by arresting inocent people...
Beleg Cúthalion on 10/10/2008 at 07:35
That would be quite a strange way of organization. AFAIK the quotes don't tell anything about the Hammerites violating their regional limits but their "qualification" competency. One would wonder how this first kind of system would have developed. It would mean that there had been several Hammerite facilities without a city's structure so that the old competency rules would have remained. But I guess it's more probable that the lot of these facilities grew when the City was already established (which it maybe was before the Hammerites came in the first place) and thus they would rather have a competency based on qualification than one based on region. This would still leave us the possibility of many conflicts, like mentioned above.
Dussander on 10/10/2008 at 12:52
Quote Posted by eagle17
Right. City Watch used to be smaller presence, so they didn't have the capacity to catch every criminal around. So Hammerites were helping them in their own specific way by catching criminals and heretics...
Yeah that was my argument, but you wrote it in a more understandable manner :)
Peanuckle on 10/10/2008 at 17:10
I always imagined that the hammerites didn't have any legal standing to arrest people or do whatever they do outside of peaceful worship, but the city watch sure as hell wasn't going to attack a group of heavily armored religious fanatics who wield massive hammers as a weapon.
Solabusca on 10/10/2008 at 17:59
Quote Posted by Peanuckle
I always imagined that the hammerites didn't have any legal standing to arrest people or do whatever they do outside of peaceful worship, but the city watch sure as hell wasn't going to attack a group of heavily armored religious fanatics who wield massive hammers as a weapon.
*DING*
We have a winner! Well, at least to my way of thinking. Again, it seems that the Watch had an extremely tenuous acknowledgement of Hammer activities
at best, and an impotent, hands-tied weary
acceptance at worst.
The Hammerites, on the other hand, seem to feel that it is their moral duty to go out and punish sinners - and even in the deteriorated state they find themselves in by TDP times, still prove something of a bogeyman for the criminal underclass.
.j.
Knock on 15/10/2008 at 04:53
Quote Posted by Peanuckle
I always imagined that the hammerites didn't have any legal standing to arrest people or do whatever they do outside of peaceful worship, but the city watch sure as hell wasn't going to attack a group of heavily armored religious fanatics who wield massive hammers as a weapon.
Also, I don't think that the watch are going to object to a little assistance in their fight against The City's underworld. True, they're probably illegally incarcerating pagans left right and centre, but when was the last time the pagans did anything beneficial towards the Baron? (That he knew about anyways). Plus, the Hammerites have often been directly helpful to the city. Think of the Department of Public Works in the Old Quarter. It managed sewer as well as water systems, and was all set up and run by the Hammerite Order (correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm a bit dusty on TDP lore).
I reckon that if the Hammers want to do something themselves, they probably have every right to do it. That said, I don't think they'd hold a vote in the Baron's court.
