kostoffj on 9/8/2001 at 13:00
Quote:
Originally posted by JIK:
<STRONG>One thing I never understood about the New Dark Age ending was that everett had a prototype for the echelon system(morpheus) in his house. What was to stop him from using morpheus to take helios's place temporarily. If he moved morpheus to area 51 or the Duclare mansion he could hook it up the global comm systems. Then he would be hailed as a hero for keeping the planet from the New Dark Age.</STRONG>
Well he couldn't move Morpheus to Area 51 because that place was reduced to being a huge smoking hole in the ground thanks to JC blowing up the anti-matter reactors. Then there is the matter of coordinating the effort to replace Helios/Echelon, which would not be a trivial task. I think it would be impossible to undertake such an effort without any kind of effective communications and with everyone else trying to deal with the resulting massive chaos that the collapse would bring.
Feroxx on 10/8/2001 at 01:01
I was just playing DeusEx the second time as I found ttlg.com, didn't even know there will be a DeusEx2... cool... Hi everybody btw... :)
Anyway, I don't think (hope) that they will refer to a possible ending of DeusEx, that would be just like a spoiled movie (And there is a risk I could haven chossen the wrong one :rolleyes: ). Better an intro that explained what happened and then *bang* a situation nobody would have even thought of.
Tenchi_Runyo on 10/8/2001 at 11:18
Quote:
Originally posted by 0Trapper0:
<STRONG>
But if the host does still hold sway with Helios, then the entire ethical system that Helios builds falls apart due, simply, to the fact that what you then have is an omnipresent, omnisophic (? "All knowing" I think that's how you omni-whatever it), and, if I understand the UCs correctly, omnipotent (even though, technically, it is impossible for anything to be have complete power over everything due to the anylitic nature of mathmatical formulae: 2+2=4 is always true, nothing has the power to make 2+2=7) human being, still with the same biases, subjectivities, and pejudices as any other human.
A prize for anyone who read that entire post <IMG SRC="thumb.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
Well I would have to disagree with you. I think that they would have equal sway, two minds sharing the same body. They would think independently and share thoughts, actually not really. The two identities of Helios and JC Denton would merge and their knowledge and beliefs would merge. so there would be a creature with mighty powers and the want to help people and compassion.
X on 10/8/2001 at 19:31
I disagree.
JC, in the earlier missions could have shown a brutality towards the NSF depending upon how you played the game. Indeed, the later missions it is extremely difficult to show compassion, therefore merely stun opponents, to the Majestic 12 troops.
Indeed Helios, while displaying the compassion expected of a supposedley benevolant power source, is still the sum of Daedalus and Icarus. Icarus is obviously a predatory AI and Daedalus obviously flawed. I'm afraid perfection doesn't exist on this plane of existance, ant Helios has to be flawed, especially if merged with a far greater flawed machine, a human being.
Tenchi_Runyo on 12/8/2001 at 11:07
Today I started a new game and in this one I killed all the enemies I saw in the beginning and everyone at UNATCO praised me and Agent Navarre thought I was the best recruit the agency ever had. It was cool.
Ithillian on 13/8/2001 at 22:42
Wow, this thread has some heavy points. My message doesn't measure up in length to the tremendous amoount of information presented here but I wanted to express my point of view on the topic, anyway on with my ramble :).
I think that based on what you observe in the game, merging with Helios is the "right" descision if I may use the term. I passed the game for the second time very recently and recall a few lines of dialogue. Daedalus was discarded by MJ12 because it classified them and the Illuminati as a terrorist group, this should eliminate the arguments of the Helios/JC entity ruling supreme being similar to JC ruling alongside Everett. One can conclude that Daedalus was designed as a program meant to "dogood" for the human race (example: giving you the objective of destroying the UC in Hong Kong so that Page can't manufacture more of the virus). Some people also mentioned that Everett may have a limited control of Daedalus, hence Helios, if that was so than you probably wouldn't need to search through the DuClaire mansion for clues on how to find Everett.
There's also the scene where you find a body and hear "A corpse, yes. You feel something. I must know what you are feeling.". One could assume that it was searching for a host of positive traits that would share it's "project" of leading the human race into safety and prosperity which would definately be compromised by the wrong host - "My project will fail if I am joined with the wrong individual". Because of the above reasons I beleive that the AI merging with JC is the "right" or maybee I should use the word "best" thing to do. "We are our choices. We can choose to lead mankind away from this... darkness". Now the only loophole in this pleasant little theory would be JC, keeping in mind that you didn't nescessarily have to be a "good guy", but I based my statement's on the character I played which can be adequately described by the fact that I only used lethal force against MJ12 troops. And Anne Navarre of course, though I coudn't help feeling sorry for Gunther. I beleive this would conclude my rant and I compliment Scraeling for thinking of this splendid thread topic.
PS this is my first post on the ttlg forums and I just want to say "Hi all :) "
Agent Monkeysee on 13/8/2001 at 23:11
Welcome :)
Airbag_Victim on 14/8/2001 at 00:59
I think Tracer's idea is the most "morally correct". I don't know if my opinion has already been expressed because I do not plan on reading through this particular topic until I've actually gotten all the endings (I just beat the game today, and chose the Tong ending). Well, anyway, I felt best choosing that ending because I would consider myself to be a hyprocrite if I were to suddenly go ahead and join forces with Illuminati/Helios/Page and take over the world. I think doing any other ending sorta puts you on Page's level, even if Helios claims it wants to maintain peace and justice.. I think people have the right to decide for themselves, not JC and Helios. Plus, like I said, I don't think you'd be any better than Page or any other power hungry person you fight during the game if you suddenly decide to keep the power for yourself.
Agent Red on 14/8/2001 at 03:12
As my first post on this forum...
May of you have brought up very insightful views into each scenario. However, some seem to be flawed slightly. While I did not read all the posts up to this point, I feel I've read enought to get a feel as to what is being asked.
First, we need to realize what the three choices really are, Forward, Backward, and Same. The Helios ending pushes the world forward in goverment, the Tong ending pushes it backwards, and the Illuminati maintains the goverment of the 20th century with slight changes.
The Helios ending is interesting in that it will create a sort of electronic god to govern the people. Helios and JC will presumably act in order to maintain happiness in everyone and fair play for all. The AI is unpredictable, however it did state that it's directives were to maintain peace of some sort. The AI will most likely plunge humanity ahead into the future with more advanced tech and possible peace/war with the Grays. However, this god only works along electronics. A faction radical enough could break away from Helios' control by merely cutting the power and creating their own nets. Therefore, if the world grows angry, Helios cannot control it and we move back to a Same or Backwards scenario.
The Illuminati ending has its strenghts in that it runs off capitalism. This system of money ruling all has been perfected since the 1100's and has proven to be an very effective means of ensuring that the individual has a strong sense of freedom because his choices and investments assure his own personal comfort while strenthening the economy as a whole. A middle class would re-emerge as the Illuminati broke up or dissolved supercorps and increased job availiblity. Furthermore, Illuminati morality can be almost assured because they are an ancient order of Christian knights, and surely a requirement for the Illuminati would be morality in actions!
The Tong ending seems to be misunderstood. First, all the global communication nets go through Aquanis. Everything. With the router destroyed, everything from cell phones to long-distance phone lines will be severed. This does NOT mean a global economic collapse! Factories will still churn out products and corn will still grow if you stick it in the dirt. The only issue is that the global supply chains will be severed. Many people feel the world would fall into post apocolyptic, but I feel it will be more of a localized future, with supply routes being bent back into their home nations and nationalization reimerging. Even if there is civil disorder, I doubt people will riot and risk life and limb because they couldn't send an e-mail to Grandma. Supply lines may only take weeks to be rebuilt to nearby industries.
I went for the Helios ending, though. Those generators were far too well guarded.
Agent Monkeysee on 14/8/2001 at 04:32
A fellow agent! Welcome :)
I disagree that Illuminati morality can be assured. First of all, who's morality and by what standard (I'd cue Überdonkey at this point but he doesn't visit the DX forums). Second of all, remember a certain icy guest of Everett's?
