New Horizon on 13/11/2008 at 15:47
TDP. It was skillfully crafted, and beautifully executed.
Tintin on 15/11/2008 at 06:39
Beleg and ShadowSneaker, thanks for that bit of information. Hope it all goes smoothly.
I absolutely can not wait - it will be amazing.
Dront on 15/11/2008 at 12:02
I vote for TMA. Why? The story covers practically the whole game - from Shoalsgate untill Soulforge, you feel like it's a mystery and you're trying to guess anything... Even after you finish, there are still many questions you want to be answered.
TDP is very close to TMA, but I didn't vote for only one reason: the general story begins only with The Sword. Yes, the story is more mysterious, but you can find answers to many general questions.
TDS... I can't say I'm as impressed by it as by T1 or T2.
EyeChan on 16/11/2008 at 16:18
It's basically a tie between TDP and TDS for me. I really can't decide. :p TDP did a really good job of shocking me back then, but TDS gets extra points for all of the details and backstory you get through notes, especially in the Cradle.
TMA bored me in every aspect. I don't know, there was just no magic to it.
Solabusca on 16/11/2008 at 18:13
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
Just a side-note:I have pushed a newbie to do all the changes with a clean T3Ed install and until now everything except the Docks and one assassin in SM Plaza works. If the remaining issues are solved, we can offer a set of altered maps. They don't work with old savegames, however (maybe an issue with the values that are stored within and which don't correspond with the ones in the new maps), but everything else is fine.
Yay! Someone's still hard at work!
Quote:
Making them invisible like we did would ignore their creepy look, making them friendly to other NPCs while being visible would be totally implausible, and making them avoid lights and act more intelligently etc. would have been a major change to the game's functions. Well, if you know what I mean. And I guess it were the time and xBox problems as always.
Making them SEMI-visible to Garrett, or visible to Garrett but non-hostile to everyone else isn't exactly implausible - we already have an in-game hint that Garrett can see them where others may not be able to (catching sight of Artemus in TDP, 'hearing' the Enforcers in TDS) - as the game is played from Garrett's POV, you wouldn't necessarily HAVE to make them invisible - just make all other parties ignore them, and it's still viable, and plausible, canonically.
.j.
Snakebite on 24/11/2008 at 18:00
This thread is about the plot, not the ways it came to life.... So I guess this is not the place to argue about the Keepers in TDS.
jtr7 on 24/11/2008 at 20:52
Pssst... You forgot to say something about the plot.:o
First Keeper on 24/11/2008 at 21:15
A lot of people criticise TMA, saying that the plot was weakened by structuring it around pre-made maps. However i've just never felt that way, i think that TMA was the superior game and i enjoyed the plot in TMA much more the TDP. The Mechanists and thier strange machines and thier eccentric insane Father Karras captured my imagination than the plot of the TDP, i also found the plot of TMA much more engrossing.
Dante on 25/11/2008 at 02:41
Quote Posted by First Keeper
A lot of people criticise TMA, saying that the plot was weakened by structuring it around pre-made maps. However i've just never felt that way, i think that TMA was the superior game and i enjoyed the plot in TMA much more the TDP. The Mechanists and thier strange machines and thier eccentric insane Father Karras captured my imagination than the plot of the TDP, i also found the plot of TMA much more engrossing.
I agree; TMA had a good plot. One of the strengths of the series is that the plots revolve around Man as much as the supernatural. While the magical aspects of TDP and TDS are powerful to observe and play through, it's always a thrill to know that it's just you against another cunning human being (Karras). Rather than Garrett being the underdog going up against a god, the playing field is even. It's less a hero vs. unstoppable dark lord story and more a battle of wits. That really intrigues me.
Sneaksie on 25/11/2008 at 07:08
Quote Posted by ShadowSneaker
Why do you think TG was dumbed down, Sneaksie? Just because of the Mages and their magical powers?
I personally don't like the Kurshoks but they aren't much different to the pagan creatures in T1/2 (which I do like).
SS
Maybe it's just me, but i like 'shortage' of magic in TDP. When things become common, they are not longer interesting or scary.
Spoilers follow.
Let's see the whole story of t1 and t2 - they are opposite to each other. TDP tells us about Nature trying to erase the achievments of humankind, while in TMA Technology almost kills it's creators. These are two extremes.
Trickster in TDP is a pagan god, for whom human civilization advances and the City as their pinnacle are the blasphemy, he wants to return humans to their rightful (as he sees it) place of a prey who will again need his protection from the beasts of Nature.
Karras in TMA is his absolute opposite, who thinks that humans and nature are no longer needed and time has come for his mechanical 'children' to rule the world devoid of anything living.
Thus, TDP is a story of battle between Nature and civilization. Trickster uses magic to achieve his goals, magic put against human civilization and early technology of Hammerites. Magic in TDP world is very scarce and resides in ancient and very dangerous places where Garrett travels, not in the human settlements. The only human magic users are Hammerite priests and their abilities are negligible compared to pagan magic and different, like priest and magic spells in AD&D. The whole story of civilization began from the Builder who put his Hammer (technology) to defend humanity from beasts of Nature, without iron weapons and stone walls human civilization would not be possible. Human encounters with powerful ancient magic ended in disaster (The Eye in Old Quarter, Trickster assault on Hammerite monastery near game end).
This way, there can not be 'legal' human magic users in TDP, just like in Middle Ages in our world. Hammerites would immediately exterminate any mage they would come across because this is a blasphemy to Builder faith (there are references of them hunting the witches and pagans).
Because of that i think mages in TG don't fit into Dark Project universe and were added as a new content for addon. From a casual point of view they fit in perfectly (dungeons, swords, magic, this is all generic fantasy stuff), but if we think about it they contradict with the plot.
