Melan on 30/8/2007 at 08:21
Quote Posted by jtr7
The mines below Cragscleft prison haven't been explained. It could make sense that the Trickster had turned the miners into zombies, or set zombies upon the miners for carving up His earth, BUT there's no proof.[SPOILER]I believe there are documents or maybe other clues in TDP to draw the conclusion that the Hammerites had found The Eye in the Cragscleft Mines, and transferred it into their cathedral in the Old Quarter, with unpleasant results when they tried to use it against the pagans in some way (as per the Return to the Cathedral intro animation). This still doesn't explain the Bonehoard, but then a steady supply of handwavium tends to solve those problems.[/SPOILER]
Solabusca on 30/8/2007 at 09:31
Quote Posted by Melan
[SPOILER]I believe there are documents or maybe other clues in TDP to draw the conclusion that the Hammerites had found The Eye in the Cragscleft Mines, and transferred it into their cathedral in the Old Quarter, with unpleasant results when they tried to use it against the pagans in some way (as per the Return to the Cathedral intro animation). This still doesn't explain the Bonehoard, but then a steady supply of handwavium tends to solve those problems.[/SPOILER]
Actually, there are no documents or clues that support that theory. It's lifted wholesale from the Keeper Theses. As far as my own memory serves, we have no in-game documentation listing where the object in question was obtained.
.j.
jtr7 on 30/8/2007 at 10:42
Correct. What sola' said.
nicked on 30/8/2007 at 11:34
I've always been under the impression that the cragscleft zombies were workers that were worked to death, and having died under such conditions, rose again.
jtr7 on 30/8/2007 at 13:22
TDS makes your theory more plausible:
Excerpt from HIprisoners.sch: [SPOILER]"...Mine thoughts turn again upon the prisoners. 'Tis proper they be put to work, but canst still be proper to work them past the point of honest effort, that they die of the labor, and rise as the accurst undead? Still, hadst they been faithful, 'twould never have come to such a pass."[/SPOILER]
I'm noticing that the Hammers are connected, to an unknown extent, to most of the zombie hoards.
Peanuckle on 30/8/2007 at 13:57
Probably because they work everybody to death.
Of course, the lower mines were always supposed to be haunted, so maybe the ghosts/evil spirits/pagan magic that dwells there waits for an availably body to reanimate? I remember that dude who stole the map of the bonehoard and some gold from the evidence vault. The hammers were worried he would make it down to the lower levels, where only then would he become a zombie. So it's probably not the conditions under which people die, but location, location, location.
jtr7 on 30/8/2007 at 20:56
Quote:
...location, location, location.
Agreed!
all on 31/8/2007 at 16:04
Quote Posted by Peanuckle
Of course, the lower mines were always supposed to be haunted, so maybe the ghosts/evil spirits/pagan magic that dwells there waits for an availably body to reanimate? I remember that dude who stole the map of the bonehoard and some gold from the evidence vault. The hammers were worried he would make it down to the lower levels, where only then would he become a zombie. So it's probably not the conditions under which people die, but location, location, location.
Eh... don't people killed by zombies become zombies themselves? Okay, the thieves killed in the bonehoard go against this, but I always said to myself Felix and his men weren't dead long enough to become zombies... I'm not saying anything against the interesting location theory, but I'm wondering if there's not more to it.
Quote Posted by Solabusca
As to the Eye - given that it seems to be an enormously powerful artefact, it's likely that the Hammerite tinkering with it, the cause of the Old Quarter disaster, may have released a wave of dark energy, animating the corpses in the catacombs, and converting many of the brothers and residents into zombies and/or haunts.
Where did you find the idea that hammerites were tinkering with it? As far as I remember, they were only trying to keep it in the cathedral vault...
EDIT:
jtr7---> Azaran the Cruel, a former Hand Mage? Where did you find this reference? And what makes you say he was likely a student of the Earth element? Sounds really interesting, but I don't understand how you got here.
Oh, and could someone remind me what the "Thieves' Reward" is, please (references would be nice ;) )?
nicked on 31/8/2007 at 18:00
Quote Posted by all
Eh... don't people killed by zombies become zombies themselves? Okay, the thieves killed in the bonehoard go against this, but I always said to myself Felix and his men weren't dead long enough to become zombies... I'm not saying anything against the interesting location theory, but I'm wondering if there's not more to it.
There's a conversation in TDS about chopping off limbs if a zombie bites you, but that could be explained as ignorant superstition held by the guards involved. After all, Benny's brain cells ain't what they useta be! :)
Quote:
jtr7---> Azaran the Cruel, a former Hand Mage? Where did you find this reference? And what makes you say he was likely a student of the Earth element? Sounds really interesting, but I don't understand how you got here.
Isn't that info straight from canon - the journal in the necromancer's tower in lotp. Also, the Thief 2 Gold necromancers were intended to be a schism from the hand brotherhood.
This is all to do with zombies, but what about haunts and apparitions? I'm pretty sure haunts are hammerites whose grave site has not been consecrated, but I can't remember where I heard that.
Also could apparitions be the same as the phantoms (trail of blood)? My reasoning is the ghosts in Gervasius' library. The man was an apparition with the app voice set and all, but the woman has a clearly understandable voice ("nobody sees, nobody knows") so perhaps apparitions are phantoms that have somehow "faded" into mindless evil?
all on 31/8/2007 at 19:18
Quote Posted by nicked
Isn't that info straight from canon - the journal in the necromancer's tower in lotp.
Here's the quote:
Whosoever finds this note, I bid thee farewell, for I no longer dwell in your domain of fetid flesh. My essence is now forever preserved in the Plane of Earth, beyond the reaches of fear and Fire. I owe my transcendence to the Book of Ash, that tome of legend I recovered so long ago from the sands of long forgotten kings. Within its pages lie the secrets of life, death...and undeath. The Hand forbade its study, for it drove so many into madness, but I have succeeded where others have failed. But be warned! The truth is hidden from the unworthy. Blacken thy heart, or face the prisoners of flesh.
-- Azaran the Cruel (source=(
http://http://thief.webz.cz/T2/html/english/M11b10.html) preno's site)
So when he Azaran talks about the Plane of Earth, does that mean he used to be an Earth Mage? Its clear to me now he refers to 'The Hand', but are there any other references of this Hand Brotherhood? I sincerely don't recall anything from my past Theif experiences.
Quote Posted by nicked
Also, the Thief 2 Gold necromancers were intended to be a schism from the hand brotherhood.
Thief 2 gold is out?
Quote Posted by nicked
This is all to do with zombies, but what about haunts and apparitions? I'm pretty sure haunts are hammerites whose grave site has not been consecrated, but I can't remember where I heard that.
Eh... are you thinking of the apparition Brother Muru from the Haunted Cathedral?
Also could apparitions be the same as the phantoms (trail of blood)? My reasoning is the ghosts in Gervasius' library. The man was an apparition with the app voice set and all, but the woman has a clearly understandable voice ("nobody sees, nobody knows") so perhaps apparitions are phantoms that have somehow "faded" into mindless evil?
