Luthien on 31/3/2003 at 11:17
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Originally posted by richardhamer_00 Thief 1 just annoyed me most of the time...for whatever reason...it just really annoyed me, and thats the beginning and end of it.
Well,
of course it was annoying. I never felt so completely out of control in any game as when I played the bonehoard for the first time. The horror when I had half a dozen zombies on my trail! Feeling completely helpless because the blackjack did not work. I played the
whole game thinking that all undead were invincible. And then RtC with the undead literally swarming around me when I made the slightest move! I absolutely
hated the undead missions on my first time through TDP. Since then I learned to use my equipment to neutralize them quickly and without risk.
Sure, I played TDP first, but I can not imagine that I had felt similarly if I had played TMA first. For a newbie, when a bot sees you it runs away (worker bots) or kills you (combat bots) with no chance of escape. That really ruined the atmosphere for me because it just made me reload every time a bot noticed me. WIth the undead however, you could outrun all of them, even with a dozen behind you.
sailoreagle on 31/3/2003 at 12:39
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Originally posted by Child of Karras If you cannot agree with me or my ways, then the best thing for both of us is to ignore. For fuck's sake, STOP overreacting. You're NOT the only one who prefers Thief 2 because it's more "realistic", and I was talking about EVERYBODY with that particular frame of mind. I have NOTHING against you personally, okay? WHY do you have to assume that I can't agree with you and that I hate you every time I disagree with you, even if I'm doing so CIVILLY, even if, you know, I didn't actually insult you or anything like that (WHERE did I call you a "fucking clueless idiot"?)? Even if I talk to you normally / ignore your posts most of the time? ONE thread where I disagree with you suddenly equals me hating your guts and constantly disagreeing with you? Fucking hell.
deadman on 31/3/2003 at 17:40
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Originally posted by Child of Karras Burricks aren't undead, yes I know but because they're hard to take down and have great offensive moves, I consider them part of it. As for Cragscleft, getting out of the lower levels was quite a bitch... for me anyway.
TombRaider-like? IMO, any mission with the undead literally crawling all over the place is TombRaider-like.Hmm.. I think this all goes back to how skilled of a thief you are. And I apologize for going back a page to quote this, but I came to an interesting conclusion after reading some of these/your posts. When it comes down to it (I'm trying to word this as non-offensively as possible!) is it just that you can't handle the undead or burricks at all? In my opinion, a true master thief wouldn't care if he was stealing gold from zombies or nobles, and if he could properly handle all of the AIs in either game, it would come down to an argument of which had the better plot, atmosphere, etc., and not all this hogwash about which is worse because of having zombies or bots.
I wholeheartedly admit it,
I couldn't taff it in a mission with excessive undead, but IMO there's only been one FM so far that I've felt was too hard because of it: Calendra's Legacy. So tell me, is this really an argument about which has better plot, or which has less-scary or fantasical AI? Treebeasts are definitely Thief 2's answer to burricks and zombies put together I think :joke: My story is just like that of Luthien's: at first I thought I couldn't kill them, so I ran like the wind and tossed and turned in my sleep having nightmares about zombies, but after I learned how simple they were and easy to avoid/deal with, they became no more than slow stupid servants.
The debate will never end, and neither will the insults and shit-talkin, so let's just call it a day and say both rock, and hopefully we won't all fall apart next year over a "Which is better: Thief I, Thief II, or Thief III?" discussion :laff: *groan* Just imagine the dozens of taffers who come on-board at the next game and prefer
that while all us 'old-fashioned' folks loyaly hold onto I and II.. We'll all have such incredible headaches :tsktsK:
"Let us not be sundered over such trifles, my brethren," thus said
The Builder (didn't know He had 'brethren' eh? *g*) and let us hearken to His Word.
deadman.
Nedan on 31/3/2003 at 21:25
I was hesitant about posting here after reading it for a while... but I guess it got the best of me as I simply could not hold back from posting any longer. :p
sailoreagle, just a friendly word of advice... give it up. I'm not disagreeing with you on any of your points (In fact, I agree with you fully), but he just isn't (or doesn't want to) listening to you or anyone. It looks to me like it's going in one ear & out the other with him. So just give up... he's just being a (
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm) troll & wasting a lot of board space sailoreagle.
Child of Karras... do you remember this comment from me:
"Muzman, don't let him bother you too much. From the time that I have gotten to know him... he has proved to be completely & utterly clueless about anything concerning gaming. He could still prove me wrong on that point... but that has yet to seen."I'm still not flaming you... but this still seems to hold some truth here as well. Seriously, every debate you've been in that I've actually read... your posts are extremely opinionated. I know that everything posted is usually just an opinion, but yours are so damn full of it to a point where I feel like I'm gagging & that they're being shoved down my throat when I read them.
What gets me is the way you treat replies made by others to you or your comments. Whenever someone disagrees with you or your comments... you act as if they hate you & are personally out to get you. You also seem to refuse to accept others having an opinion that differs from your own & that you're making it your own personal mission to stomp out these "so called" heretics. As least that's what I'm getting out of it.
Most of what you have said here can only be taken as either absurdly opinionated or just pathetic desperation at defending your position. I'll give some examples...
Just like your "everything in strategy is a clone of C&C" comment... this also sounds ridiculous:
"...do you REALLY love Thief:TDP more than TMA or are you just... "forcing" yourself to because it was the first?"Thief 1 went partially unnoticed because most people fear somerthing new & original. This isn't an opinion, it's a widely known fact. People do often fear the unknown. Thief 1 was new... it was a style that hadn't yet been tried before on the pc. Most critics rated it high & loved it. Most fans that actually played it thought it was a little slice of heaven. The point of this is that when Thief 1 released... the style that TDP had was relatively unknown & untried. Practically creating a new genre, that's a heck of a lot to live up too for a sequel.
As it stands, TMA really didn't do or add anything new to the genre that TDP created. All it did was tweak & refine what TDP introduced. I could understand asking or answering this question from you if TDP did suck & was rated poorly by critics... but it didn't & wasn't. So it all makes your question sound absurd.
"sailoreagle=I don't know about you but I say building those bots are possible. Except for a few sections of course..."Where is you're proof to back up this claim? I'm serious. You act like you know what you're talking about... but you show absolutely no proof to back it up either. This sounds like a desperate attempt to defend your position & a refusal to even remotely listen to anyone else.
"I know why people prefer TDP and I can't agree with them."Fair enough. But are those people that prefer TDP wrong? I ask this question because that's the way you've been acting toward them here in this thread.
"I may be a fucking clueless idiot but that is of none of your business either."This is absurd Child of Karras. You are making it our business by actually posting here in these forums... these are public forums after all. This is not email or private discussion. If you don't want people to tell you that you're clueless... then please refrain from posting & commenting in debates with your opinionated tripe.
"If you cannot agree with me or my ways, then the best thing for both of us is to ignore."If I was Annah from Planescape:Torment... I would've told you to "Pike off ya clueless sod" a long time ago & left it at that. But instead... I'll say this:
This is the real world. People are not robots. People have their own minds. Most of the time, they don't follow the leader & they actually do think for themselves. People will often disagree with one another. This is a proven fact of life. If everyone were to just agree with you & your ways... it would be a pretty plain & sad world. They would no longer be considered as individuals... they would all be mindless drones.
Also, if people were to ignore each other everytime someone disagrees with them... everyone on the planet would be on ignore by everyone. It would be pretty silent on this planet.
These some examples of what you have said here in this thread. I could list more from this thread, but I simply do not want to waste anymore time on this other than what I already have given.
Child of Karras, my point to all this is that this is a debate on a public forum. If you cannot accept the fact that others are going to disagree with you... don't come here anymore. Stop being a (
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm) Troll, stop posting your tripe or spam, & utterly be quiet stop bothering us. It is as simple as that.
242 on 31/3/2003 at 23:27
It's just boring to me to play ordinary "mansion" type missions too often. And I *love* unusual "mystic" type missions with riddles and such, my favourites from TDP are missions which probably are hated by many "TMAers": Bonehoard, Cragscleft, THC, RTC, The Sword.
I know that the game is called "Thief", but guys, wouldn't it be tooo boring if almost all missions would be in the mansions, amongs people, and all about stealing? For me nice mix would be about 50%/ 50%
Manny The Thief on 31/3/2003 at 23:38
Can't we all just get along?
*runs away under a hail of flashbangs and taffers tryin to bonk him dead*
Child of Karras on 1/4/2003 at 00:28
Still don't know why people are saying I have a problem with people who disagree with me. I don't. Maybe I just want to try and prove that TMA is the better game.
Troll? No way. If I wanted to cause problems in the first place, I would have done it with more people. I've been here for only a short time but the amount of fights I'm getting in too is probably more than what some of the '4years' guys will ever go through. If you recall the first ever fight I was in where some new guy popped up and I said "Thou art one of us". I did not know. Tried explaining, got flamed even more. My point is, I think sometimes you guys have the problem. Take a look Nedan. I was posting... and people found my conclusions weird. Fine, I explain further and what do I get? Sarcasm. Maybe it's common style around here but I don't like it. That's why most of the time I see it as an attack from sailoreagle. I can't help it. It just annoys me. And no I'm not saying "Oh sailoreagle likes sarcasm so I'm going to fuck her up whenever she uses it on me". No. In the 'Poll Pot' thread, she made a sarcastic comment but I said nothing because I knew it was really nothing. I'm not sure what you ment when you said: "It's going through one ear and going out the other". Are you trying to say I should listen to everone else and what they think about it?
But seriously. Me a Troll? I've get better things to do than to that that. What you have seen so far is what goes through my head. I have no intentions of pissing anybody off. If I did, I would have been kicked out eons ago. Don't lay the blame entirely on me Nedan. Oh don't you dare. If you look back into some of the old posts like 'Stupidest Foregin Title / Loyalty that binds us' you would see that even others knew some of the posters have got strange habits and some agreed that they were too hostile towards me. You might not have a problem with the various styles but I certainly do. I try to tolerate it, ok. SE, you know well that I don't like your constant sarcasm and you most definately know I tend to overreact (you said it yourself) so why oh why? Yes I post crazy stuff, yes I post things few/none can agree on but haven't you realize that, in several threads, you're the only one who slams me?
However, I admit I have a problem as well. I say we LEAVE it. I don't like your style SE and you sure as Hell don't like mine so the two of us, take a step back in our own direction and walk our way. Or is there something else you and Nedan would like to argue about me wanting to get away from this argument and let the boards resume it's smooth flow without having to see us fight?
.
.
Oh and Nedan, I was actually planning to stay away from this... 'fight' after my last post. Well that's until you posted so I wrote this^
sailoreagle on 1/4/2003 at 08:20
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Originally posted by Child of Karras SE, you know well that I don't like your constant sarcasm and you most definately know I tend to overreact (you said it yourself) so why oh why? Yes I post crazy stuff, yes I post things few/none can agree on but haven't you realize that, in several threads, you're the only one who slams me? EXCUSE ME? Cut the crap. No really, cut the crap.
A forum search (that everybody is welcome to repeat) shows I have, after the, ah, "explosion" in the foreign movie titles thread, addressed you in exactly four threads, out of the 100+ you've posted in since then. (If I've missed one, feel free to point it out to me.)
In <a href=http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66169>this thread</A> I answered your question and nothing more.
In <a href=http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66438>this one</A>, I made a <a href=http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=768047#post768047>comment</A> directed to you that several other people echoed. Most people who commented on what you said in that particular thread did so <I>before</I> me, and many were far more sarcastic than I was (see AR's comments).
Then there's <a href=http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66308>this thread</A>, where I made <a href=http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=765985#post765985>this comment</A>, answering two of your questions (okay, a question and an observation) and telling you how to properly reply to quoted text. Oh, and I echoed somebody's correction on a bit of text you misheard.
Then there's this thread here. Let's just list the people who disagreed with you in an angry way, or were sarcastic at you, or expressed annoyance at you, other than me: Luthien and Muzman (both long before I did), ZylonBane. And then Nedan.
Nevermind that you were rude to the person who started this thread ("This topic has been done to death right? [...] Just search around."), dismissed other people's opinions if they preferred TDP ("And do you REALLY love Thief:TDP more than TMA or are you just... "forcing" yourself to because it was the first?", "That's because you played T:TDP 'BEFORE' T2:TMA and knew what to expect right?" etc.), were sarcastic and rude to others ("ALEXIUS=Oh yeah. And Burricks, Frogbeats and plant-ladies are real:rolleyes:" [funny how the "it's more realistic" argument works for you, but when people who prefer TDP present it it's unacceptable, right?], "FORJE=Are you paying attention?", "Are you mad?" etc. [and then you say that you don't mean to imply that TDP lovers are dumb and say "You must have mistook someone else's post for mine...])
Nevermind that I posted once on page 1 of this thread, then came back on page 3. I didn't address you directly until the bottom of page 3, and then it was to respond to a comment of yours ("WHICH VIKTORIA LOOKS BETTER? TDP's OR TMA's?"), not to attack you. Soon after, I made a JOKE ("So TMA has a negative effect on people's brains, and makes them dumber and more likely to try and pick fights. Interesting... :p") that was clearly a joke, and that you walked right into. Not to mention that it went flying over your head and I had to explain it. And, upon explaining it, I SAID it was a joke.
The first post I addressed to you that could be considered remotely sarcastic is at the bottom of page 4 (the one that starts with "Pardon me, how exactly does the lack of undead..."). Before that, I said nothing sarcastic at ALL.
Then I make a comment that was NOT directed at you but was directed, in general, to a GROUP of people (note how I was generically talking about "people", not about you, note how the comment is separated by a "---" from the part of my post that was addressed to you [like the part of my post that was addressed to you was separated by a "---" by the comment I made in reply to ZylonBane's post right above mine], note how I prefaced the comment with a "I have no problem with anybody liking Thief 2 better than Thief 1."). And you overreact.
I think everybody can see that I'm NOT constantly after you, and that I'm NOT "the only one who slams you". Not even in a SINGLE thread, let alone in several.
So cut the crap, will you?
Gingerbread Man on 1/4/2003 at 08:44
I'M TRYING TO SLEEP, HERE.
richardhamer_00 on 1/4/2003 at 09:33
I'm new to the forum.... so, Is it usual for this level of shouty-sweary debate to happen whenever somebody asks for some opinions?
