Zillameth on 5/1/2008 at 13:23
Same with me. I do prefer TDP in terms of narrative, but I prefer TMA in terms of gameplay, and it's TMA that is my favourite part of the series.
I like its mood best, too. TDP is the woo kind of scary, which is not exactly my cup of tea, because I don't like this kind of thrill, and it doesn't work on me most of time anyway. The mood in TMA is just... sad. Sad and disillusioned. It's less focused on grand schemes, or powerful spells, but much more focused on people. I mean, in TDP there is Garrett, and Constantine, and that's all. Viktoria is just a support character who mostly serves as an info dump, and doesn't really show any traits of personality until after RttC. Benny doesn't even have a name yet, in fact there is little to support the notion that there was a Benny in TDP (as opposed to a bunch of generic stupid guards acted by the same voice actor). TMA has much more effort put into giving all characters a bit of soul. I like that.
Huckeye on 5/1/2008 at 16:11
Quote Posted by theBlackman
In my case, I think I prefer T1 because Garrett was Garrett. A rebelious self-serving master thief.
I also liked the first real application of true "stealth".
In T2 he becomes a empathetic, altruistic do-gooder.
True, circumstances forced the issue. If he, or someone else, did not stop Karras, everybody, himself included was on the road to oblivion. I much preferred him in his earlier persona.
T3 followed that same trend with Garrett being Mr. Fixit. Even though in part he was, in the latter part of the game, acting in self-preservation.
I've not looked at it from this angle before. But I agree. In T1 Constantine seeks Garrett specifically and he is fighting for his own life and a little revenge. In the other two its the keepers begging for help. Interesting. Way to make the distinction even more clear for me:mad: :p
But in a sense this explains why I felt like the T2 plot line was thrown together at the end. In T1 each mission led to the other perfectly. It all just made sense. With every mission being a "help us" mission in T2 this makes sense as to why I felt like the plot was afterthought (I could never explain why, it was just a feeling of a clunky and sporadic story).
Goldmoon Dawn on 5/1/2008 at 18:00
In the making of Thief II video on the Thief Gold disk, Randy says that Dark Project was story first. Missions came out of that, which is why they are so beloved. Thief II was Missions first, then craft a story around that, so...
Overall, I though that Thief II was a pretty fair forgery.
The true masterpiece and classic of the series will always be The Dark Project.
KurtC on 5/1/2008 at 23:16
lol 5 years (almost) theres always something to talk bout thief xD, k well bakc on topic, i like Thief the Dark Project most, y played it first and it has a good plot for me at least and good missions, is not like you gonna judge Thief 1 for the graphics if you didnt play it back in 98 then is not the same.
What i like of thief 1 mission is thr atmosphere, bonehoard, haunted cathedral and lost city, makes you feel like , you don't now whats goin to happen around the corner, i spent 3 months in the damn Haunted Cathedral missions, cause my english back those days (i was like 14 years old) and i couldnt understand what was the eye telling me :confused:, since there are no subtitles xD i was like listenin trying to figure out those words.
I went to every place in the whole map even places you not supposed to go , pushed those barrils jump on rooftop, and i get to reach the top of the cathedral trying to find my way inside @_@. finally i found out the way to the the keepers hideout by mistake xD i throw a fire arrow to those torchs to see if there were a lever or somethin in the statue and voila secret door opened.
Thief the Dark Project is the best game i have played, and i can finnally play Thief 3 xD i bought a geforce 8800 today :cheeky:
Tintin on 6/1/2008 at 11:22
Quote Posted by Huckeye
The fan missions have made the original T1 and even T2 missions look pathetic at best.
This seems a bit rough. I mean the original missions aren't that bad. Sure some of the missions aren't so great but you have to remember there are a multitude of crap fan-missions as well.
Please give me the names of fan-missions that surpass the originals of both Thief DP and Thie MA.
Thanks!
Twist on 6/1/2008 at 21:00
Quote Posted by Tintin
This seems a bit rough. I mean the original missions aren't that bad.
I don't think his comment needs to be read as just a criticism of the original missions, but at least partially as a nod to the quality of the best of the fan missions.
Quote Posted by Tintin
Please give me the names of fan-missions that surpass the originals of both Thief DP and Thie MA.
I haven't played nearly as many missions as many of the folks that seem to live in the (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=100) Thief Fan Mission Forum, but I still feel I've probably played over a full game's worth of missions which featured more refined Thief gameplay and greater visual composition than most missions in T1 & T2.
Any list will inevitably feature a couple maps someone else with different tastes will dislike, and some are clearly not meant for certain people (if you hate puzzlers or strict keyhunts, Keyhunt may not appeal to you and if you hate Undead missions, Sledge/Raen's masterpiece The Inverted Manse may be a bit much for you), but without putting much thought into it, the following FMs strike me as superior to many OMs:
The Seventh Crystal
Cult of the Resurrection
The Seven Sisters
Equilibrium
Benny's Dead
Ominous Bequest
SSR-Keyhunt
The Inverted Manse
Gathering at the Inn (CoSaS version)
Cathedral Of the Damned (even though it was never completely finished)
Heist Society
Hidden Agenda
Lord Alan's Factory
The Ashen Age Pt. 1
And I have yet to play many classics which many consider their favorites, such as L'Arsene series, Calendra's Legacy, Rowena's Curse or any of frobber's missions.
I still feel like the definitive Thief game hasn't been made yet. I think all three of the commercial releases have some distinct & disappointing flaws. I consider Thief to be my all-time favorite gaming world in which to immerse myself, but it is the collective of the three games and the best fan missions that make me feel this way about Thief.
I still consider the original Thief my favorite as it completely changed the way I perceive games, but when you go back and play it now, it does suffer from some problems that may be more apparent to people playing it for the first time now rather than pre-2000.
Melan on 7/1/2008 at 07:32
Quote Posted by evangelos
Perfect,
T1 ruined EVERY other game for me. Since I played it in late 98', nothing has come close to its immersive atmosphere.
Aha, so I am not the only one. :cheeky: After Thief and the hundreds of fan missions spoiled me, those
other games just don't cut it anymore.
WRT the question of the thread, it comes down to aesthetics (TDP as the darker, more sinister game as the Blackman put it), a tighter story and I propose also better, as in "more interesting" level-building. TDP levels may not have been as "realistic" as some TMA equivalents were, but they were somehow more exciting to crawl through. They weren't flawless, and we have to keep in mind that they needed to be low-poly because people back then had weaker computers, but taken in that context, they were just excellent.
Finally, the cutscenes were clearly superior.
Huckeye on 7/1/2008 at 14:09
Quote Posted by Tintin
This seems a bit rough. I mean the original missions aren't that bad. Sure some of the missions aren't so great but you have to remember there are a multitude of crap fan-missions as well.
Please give me the names of fan-missions that surpass the originals of both Thief DP and Thie MA.
Thanks!
Yeah, in response to the original question, I am answering by explaining that I can see why some like T2 more and why some like T1 more. T2 has better graphics and many fan missions do look much, much better. I am complimenting the fan authors in that statement, but also stating a fact on the state of an aging game. After playing the FMs on Twist's list go back and fire up T1. You will notice entire rooms that contain two items and two textures tops, long hallways with no detail or aesthetic patterns, and square room after square room after square room... And this is just talking about level design. Look at the quality of textures, objects, and models in the FMs.
A good comparison might be driving a Ferrari today and then driving a station wagon tomorrow. Nothing wrong with the wagon, but after getting accustomed to the newer model, the flaws of the older one stand out more than to those who drove the wagon first. Either I did a poor job of explaining or you read my post wrong; I like T1 more. It was a great game (my favorite of all games!). But I can still see its flaws, and to someone who started out with T2 first and the great FMs that accompanied it, T1 looks awful.
The Juggler on 8/1/2008 at 00:45
As I said in the thread about zombies, it was the zombies which meant I couldn't play any more than the first level of Thief I. As such I haven't really played it, I can't bring myself to.
evangelos on 8/1/2008 at 03:06
Quote Posted by Melan
......
Finally, the cutscenes were clearly superior.
The Cutscenes were half the game... not a part of it, not an "mood setter" not introductory, but the game itself. Masterpieces by any means then and now and beyond :D
