Muzman on 28/3/2003 at 14:49
I'd have to say I think the Thief1 crowd are on more stable ground here and would be generally easier to please in the future. Their issues with Thief 2 are mostly in structure and execution; they like T2s levels and better graphics and would probably like the robots if they were developed more fully and had more variety (and guess which one they played first, on average).
The Thief 2 boosters, however, take issue with monsters and undead and various other fundaments of the Thief world. They seemingly treat T1 like it was a mistake because of these things (and guess which one they played first, on average).
So ya see, if the third game places itself in the world of the series completely, expanding all aspects, telling a brilliant story with well developed characters with a good mix of stealing and adventure and rounding off the trilogy perfectly the T1 fans will be pleased as punch. But T2 crowd will still be annoyed, 'cause it'll have all those nasty elements from the first game still there that should have been severed like a gangrenous limb because undead and monsters are stupid and wrong and hard to kill and I JUST HATE THEM SO MUCH! etc.
Forje on 28/3/2003 at 15:06
CoK - Yeah, after looking at some of the briefings again, it does clearly state that Karras hired Truart to bag Garret. My bad :p It's been a couple weeks and I've only played through it once so far. For some reason I thought his only function was to provide warm bodies for this servant business and maybe to provide a little extra protection. But then that only leads me to the question...Why is it so important that Karras have him out of the way? You have to infer that since Karras is THE Mechanist, that he was once a Hammer, and so he should know about all that crazy crap Garret pulled a while back. I'm just not convinced about why Karras was dead certain that Garret would get involved in the first place. If it hadn't been for the Ambush, I can imagine it would've taken the Keepers to give Garret a push in that direction, and I'm not sure Karras knows anything about them. Besides, why does Karras need Truart to kill Garret. He has hordes of Mechanists, not to mention all those machines. What makes him think that Truart is even capable of this if Garret is to be feared enough that he simply must be out of the way asap? He's just the head of City Watch. Cops are clearly no match for Garret. Further, Garret should be considered a hero for his stunts in TDP, yet he's still just as hated in the beginning of T2 as he was in TDP, and just as poor. You'd think the Hammers would help a brother out. This is the guy that rescued their High Priest and defeated the Trickster, but no...he's still just a thief. That's the problem. It's a great story that was made way too complex and they failed to tie the all the loose ends together (and to the original story--it IS a sequel). It's the Karras...I mean...carrot on a stick technique of drawing you through the plot rather than giving real compelling reasons for Garret risk his neck. If I'd known earlier about all that cultivator jazz, I'd understand why Garret would be all over it in a heartbeat. Without that little bit of info, what does he have to gain in all this? Garret's cool and all, but he does have reason to be cold and self-centered.
zach - Yes! I finished Calendra's Cistern last week and was completely ... blown away isn't good enough ... dumbfounded? ... Wow!? I'm looking forward to playing Legacy, but I have to clear some junk outta my hd before I can finish dl'ing it :tsktsk:
Child of Karras on 28/3/2003 at 15:17
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Originally posted by Muzman I'd have to say I think the Thief1 crowd are on more stable ground here and would be generally easier to please in the future. ]
:nono: - :nono:
Well it really is a matter of opinion. Some people like them for the forced ghosting thing but there are others like me who prefer to be
A thief and make use of all the equipment given to us by the creators. If LGS was so into the style of"not be seen", then heck! Throw in a bunch of undead. I can understand.
Quote:
Their issues with Thief 2 are mostly in structure and execution; they like T2s levels and better graphics and would probably like the robots if they were developed more fully and had more variety (and guess which one they played first, on average).]
Are you mad?
DARK PROJECT UNDEAD: Hammer Haunt, Zombie, See-through thingy - 3
METAL AGE BOTS: White bot, Red bot, Spider bot, Child of Karras, Servants, Warrior-servants, metal watchers - 7
Quote:
The Thief 2 boosters, however, take issue with monsters and undead and various other fundaments of the Thief world. They seemingly treat T1 like it was a mistake because of these things (and guess which one they played first, on average).
That's so wrong. I have no problems with the undead. Like me and many others, we just think it's been overdone. They might as well call thief the GRAVEROBBER: DARK PROJECT. I prefer Thief 1's music/fmv's/story over TMA by the way. Don't put words in our mouth. We NEVER said anything about hating TDP. Like you TDPers, there are some things you hated abt TMA like the mission and the flow of the story. Well we want the undead to be less. See? We're even right?
Luthien on 28/3/2003 at 15:23
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Originally posted by honeymaker I was saddened to see someone saying that The Metal Age "failed miserably", especially in this forum. Good god, man, Life of the Party was quite possibly the best gaming experience of all time.
I did not say that T2 failed miserably. I said that the story in T2 is crap and ruins the atmosphere for me. I actually like some of the levels in T2 more than some of the levels in TDP (and vice versa). But the question was which hwas the better game, not which had the nicer missions. Overall I say that atmosphere in TDP was great and poor in T2.
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Everyone has their own opinion, but my only fear is that the developers of T3 will listen to these folks and make the new game filled with tedious burrick tunnels and zombies.
Did you know that the developers themselves said that TDP is the better game?
zacharias on 28/3/2003 at 15:38
We got a source on that Luthien? I'm not disputing it has been said, but all i can remember is that article where aardvark and ikka said it.
ps. I played T2 first, but prefer T1..i was somewhere in Cragscleft when i decided this ;)
Child of Karras on 28/3/2003 at 15:40
FORJE
Come to think of it... I have no idea why it's so important that Karras gets rid of Garrett...
Maybe Karras does know something about the Keepers? They're signs are all over the place anyway... and remember the first TDP FMV
"It's not easy to be in the presence of a Keeper. Especially for those who do not wish to be seen"
And that Keeper was wearing a ring too... And their symbols are all over the @#$@#$ place or maybe he just said it because they knew Garrett would join them... argh I don't know
WHY DOES KARRAS WANT GARRETT OUT SO BADLY? WHY OH WHY?
Forje on 28/3/2003 at 15:54
Heh, it's kind of like the Freemasons :p You don't really think twice when you see the local chapter house, if even notice it at all, or when you see the Shriners in a parade...it's only after you do a little investigation that it becomes interesting. ;)
Muzman on 28/3/2003 at 16:00
Quote:
Originally posted by Child of Karras Well it really is a matter of opinion. Some people like them for the forced ghosting thing but there are others like me who prefer to be
A thief and make use of all the equipment given to us by the creators. If LGS was so into the style of"not be seen", then heck! Throw in a bunch of undead. I can understand.
what are you talking about. No really. What are you talking about?
Quote:
Are you mad?
DARK PROJECT UNDEAD: Hammer Haunt, Zombie, See-through thingy - 3
METAL AGE BOTS: White bot, Red bot, Spider bot, Child of Karras, Servants, Warrior-servants, metal watchers - 7
What are you talking about? 2 - the revenge.
No really, what are you talking about? At the risk of acting like your reply has anything to do with what I said, I ask, What's a white bot and a red bot? Servants don't count. They are actually (<i> dum dum duuum</i>) undead. Neither do security cameras. but forget all that. What are you talking about?
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That's so wrong. I have no problems with the undead. Like me and many others, we just think it's been overdone. They might as well call thief the GRAVEROBBER: DARK PROJECT. I prefer Thief 1's music/fmv's/story over TMA by the way. Don't put words in our mouth. We NEVER said anything about hating TDP. Like you TDPers, there are some things you hated abt TMA like the mission and the flow of the story. Well we want the undead to be less. See? We're even right?
I've been having these arguments slightly longer than you and, although I'm distilling things in a slightly slanted fashion for entertainment purposes, I ain't wrong. I'm especially not So Wrong. Dislike undead ever so slightly if you like, but be sure there are legions of people who cannot stand the damn things for all manner of reasons. The mere presence of them ruined the game as far as they are concerned. As they picked up the box for TDP they had some other game in their heads after playing T2. So please don't talk like you're the elected representitive for an entire point of view.
Child of Karras on 28/3/2003 at 16:01
Silent Hill........ the mystery...... the endings still pop up all sorts of questions. Let's have one for the Karras and Garrett thingy and spent several hours arguing about the whats and whats not. :p
sailoreagle on 28/3/2003 at 18:42
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Originally posted by Child of Karras WHICH VIKTORIA LOOKS BETTER? TDP's OR TMA's? Vikki's hot no matter what.
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Know what irks me? All the TMA-lovers that come in here and say "how can you people prefer TDP when TMA is clearly superior?". Because funnily enough, no TDP-lovers start threads like this...
