SilentDragon on 16/9/2019 at 18:52
Sometimes I wonder, looking overall types of artists having a Patreon, why do not dedicated FM creators have a Patreon?
Would this not be the best for Creators and Players alike? The creator gets a hopefully steady decent income and their fans are able to get ever better missions, from people who might want to do this as a kinda job.
Patreon could be either used as the main source of income or, how I think it will happen, an addition to the income.
The FMs would still be free and public (one is not selling them), support would be incentivised through other means (Credits in the Description, etc.)
The Creator could show his commitment to his supporters by posting regular updates, etc.
Also, IMO people who make things for all of the community to use (TFix, FM Loaders, etc.) should already have a Patreon.
I am not sure what the Communities stance will be, but I hope a consensus is reached allowing creators to better follow their passion and FM fans to "secure" quality content.
And I am very unsure about all of the possible cons.
trefoilknot on 16/9/2019 at 19:54
Not a legal expert, but I think this would be a violation, even if the FM is made available for free.
I don't think using DromEd for profit is allowed, under any circumstances. Not even something like: “hey, can I pay someone $100 to rig up this S/R deal that I can't figure out?”
Random_Taffer on 16/9/2019 at 20:00
Would be kinda nice, but based on how small the community is, you couldn't really make a living off it. Especially multiple authors in one small community.
SilentDragon on 16/9/2019 at 20:16
Quote Posted by trefoilknot
Not a legal expert, but I think this would be a violation, even if the FM is made available for free.
I don’t think using DromEd for profit is allowed, under any circumstances. Not even something like: “hey, can I pay someone $100 to rig up this S/R deal that I can’t figure out?”
In the DromED for TDP licence, it states: "Your levels must be distributed free of charge. Neither you nor anyone else may sell, rent, lease or commercially exploit these levels in any way. You may only exchange them at no charge to licensed users of Thief: The Dark Project."
I interperate that it only talks about the distribution of levels, not being paid for the creation of the levels. So one is allowed to profit of making them, BUT NOT selling them.
Keep in mind I am no expert either.
Quote Posted by Random_Taffer
Would be kinda nice, but based on how small the community is, you couldn't really make a living off it. Especially multiple authors in one small community.
Yeah true, that's why I think people will mostly use it as an addition to their income. But maybe wit enough exposure from this fandom might grow considerably.
PinkDot on 16/9/2019 at 20:21
Pretty every FM author "stands on the shoulders of giants", so to speak. It would be seen as unfair, to be using resources made by others, and still making a profit using them, while most of community members did not. And even if you decide to use only own resources (which would take completing missions almost impossible), there's the Dromed knowledge, which had been shared here always for free. And how about beta-testers - would they be paid or not? It's a too gray area to even consider stepping into.
However creating resources on their own, like models or textures, which are more or less game engine independent could qualify for a paid work without any legal issues. As long as no LGS tools have been used, like 3ds2bin converter etc..
Another possibility could be maybe sponsoring a person/team to work on some resources, and chipping in to pay for the software - e.g. Substance Designer, Marverlous Designer or some texture pack or whatever to create let's say a set of 3D characters for entire community to use. This way, one would offer their work for free and the cost of tools would be covered by community.
ValmontPhl on 16/9/2019 at 21:54
Because:
"Money Changes Everything" - Cindy Lauper
SilentDragon on 17/9/2019 at 07:45
Quote Posted by ValmontPhl
Because:
"Money Changes Everything" - Cindy Lauper
Well, it could change for the better by giving Creators some stability so maybe bigger projects could be done more frequently.
Necrohowl on 17/9/2019 at 07:58
This is both a good and a bad idea:
It is a good idea because Patreon would generate money to those who deserve it.
It is a bad idea because it could easily make the FM makers greedy; adding exclusive missions, "pre-order", Patreon-only and so on.
My issue with Patreon is exactly that, the guy/gal has a choice to make it purely free and the money is only donation-based, they will get nothing in return and maker gives them nothing in return.
Sadly, there's also a choice of making it 'exclusive' which EVERY Patreon I know (except for one) does it.
Nah, honestly, if you want to pay somebody for making an FM despite not being contracted by you for it (in short, donation) then just donate, PayPal or whichever way.
SilentDragon on 17/9/2019 at 08:27
Quote Posted by Necrohowl
This is both a good and a bad idea:
It is a good idea because Patreon would generate money to those who deserve it.
It is a bad idea because it could easily make the FM makers greedy; adding exclusive missions, "pre-order", Patreon-only and so on.
My issue with Patreon is exactly that, the guy/gal has a choice to make it purely free and the money is only donation-based, they will get nothing in return and maker gives them nothing in return.
Sadly, there's also a choice of making it 'exclusive' which EVERY Patreon I know (except for one) does it.
Nah, honestly, if you want to pay somebody for making an FM despite not being contracted by you for it (in short, donation) then just donate, PayPal or whichever way.
Aren´t exclusive missions prohibited by the DromED licence?
I agree with you on most things but IMO some things are fine to be Patreon exclusive, like minor weakly progress updates.
And I know some Patreon users who make everything free after about a months time.
Quote Posted by PinkDot
Pretty every FM author "stands on the shoulders of giants", so to speak. It would be seen as unfair, to be using resources made by others, and still making a profit using them, while most of community members did not. And even if you decide to use only own resources (which would take completing missions almost impossible), there's the Dromed knowledge, which had been shared here always for free. And how about beta-testers - would they be paid or not? It's a too gray area to even consider stepping into.
However creating resources on their own, like models or textures, which are more or less game engine independent could qualify for a paid work without any legal issues. As long as no LGS tools have been used, like 3ds2bin converter etc..
Another possibility could be maybe sponsoring a person/team to work on some resources, and chipping in to pay for the software - e.g. Substance Designer, Marverlous Designer or some texture pack or whatever to create let's say a set of 3D characters for entire community to use. This way, one would offer their work for free and the cost of tools would be covered by community.
Yeah, this Custom object/resource issue needs a lot more discussion, but IMO it would not be unfair to anyone, but rather path the path to a better future (hopefully).
nicked on 17/9/2019 at 11:41
I don't think (and I may be wrong so don't quote me) that there's any legal problem with a mission author having a Patreon or similar setup as long as there's no direct connection to the mission itself, which would still be freely available to all - it's kinda like the equivalent of putting a tip jar out next to it.
But I would say it's very much something that isn't in the spirit of this community, and I can't imagine you'd see much uptake from it.