Goldmoon Dawn on 18/5/2006 at 03:30
Quote Posted by Domarius
So you enjoy shooting ducks in a barrel? And I thought you were a hardcore thief player... It's not stealthy. It's bad game design.
Possibly, but here in America a wise Thief knows that once in a while a "release" from tension will only help increase the immersion. Hence, what Bane said.
Wise Thieves also know that Dark Project and *gag* also T2 have a very fun swordfighting system built in, complete with responses from the Guards. A wonderful, wonderful project.
woah on 18/5/2006 at 16:00
The choice of game engine in Thief: Deadly Shadow remains what spoiled the game for me. I'm quite convinced I could not enjoy any game had it been created on that engine.
Domarius on 18/5/2006 at 16:50
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Possibly, but here in America a wise Thief knows that once in a while a "release" from tension will only help increase the immersion.
Spoken like a true American? ...Seriously, I can't believe you just said that.
This is not the odd backstab or fire arrow we're talking about (each that have their own consiquences), this is an exploit. This is something you can do any time to make the game much easier than it should be, and not because you're skilled at stealth, but because you're playing it like an FPS. Is this game an FPS?
Then what is the point of being stealthy when you can run around and get all the guards to chase you, and take them all out with a single flash bomb by blackjacking them one by one?
Here's an analogy; an FPS where you COULD shoot guys, but instead you can just keep running straight to the end of the level. But to make a challenge for yourself, you force yourself to stay around and shoot them.
Any other game where you found it was made super easy by doing something mindless and repetative, you'd admit it was flawed, but because this is classic Thief we're talking about, you'll irrationally defend every pixel to the death.
ZylonBane on 18/5/2006 at 17:29
Quote Posted by Domarius
I can't believe you just said that.
Well, having your head up your ass does tend to restrict the thinking process.
The FACT is that despite classic Thief's treatment of flash bombs, it's not generally regarded as a flaw, but rather quite useful, if occasionally a bit silly if you choose to really abuse it. It's typical of Thief's excellent support for player choice in how they approach the missions. I can choose to be stealthy Garrett, or I can choose to be Ramboesque-cuts-a-swath-of-destruction Garrett. The game's tools are sufficiently logical and general purpose to support either approach.
TDS, on the other hand, implemented flash bombs in a way that's ALWAYS silly and illogical.
Domarius on 18/5/2006 at 17:35
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Well, having your head up your ass does tend to restrict the thinking process.
Oh grow up. The crux of ZB's claim to fame - rude personal remarks. "Mr Moderator, ZB called me a poo-poo head!"
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it's not generally regarded as a flaw, but rather quite useful, if occasionally a bit silly if you choose to really abuse it.
That's what I said - an exploit. Name any other aspect of the game you can abuse to make the game easier than playing stealthy, and I'll show you another exploit.
ZylonBane on 18/5/2006 at 17:59
Quote Posted by Domarius
That's what I said - an exploit. Name any other aspect of the game you can abuse to make the game easier than playing stealthy, and I'll show you another exploit.
Well, you can walk up to a guard and stab him in the face. That's not stealthy. Does that make it an exploit?
News, kid: Just because a tool can be used in a way counter to the game's design philosophy, doesn't make it an exploit. In Thief's case, it makes it another avenue for roleplaying. Thief is in many ways more a simulation than a game-- this means you can do all sorts of things you're not "supposed" to do, yet it all still works and makes sense (more or less). This is why people are still playing this game so many years later, because it lets you play the way you want to play.
Goldmoon Dawn on 18/5/2006 at 18:50
Quote Posted by Domarius
Spoken like a true American? ...Seriously, I can't believe you just said that.
This is not the odd backstab or fire arrow we're talking about (each that have their own consiquences), this is an exploit. This is something you can do any time to make the game much easier than it should be, and not because you're skilled at stealth, but because you're playing it like an FPS. Is this game an FPS?
My friend, I understand you. You misunderstand me only a little bit.
Playing Thief like an FPS matters only because of the elite nature of gameplay established by Thief: The Dark Project. Considering this, I never meant using this "release" as a way to further oneself in any given Mission.
I simply mean when the wits are startin' to freak, make a quicksave, unleash some Hell of your own, then reload quicksave.
This, is the "release" I meant. Seemed like an American understanding. I apologise if other peoples share this.
Goldmoon Dawn on 18/5/2006 at 18:55
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Well, having your head up your ass does tend to restrict the thinking process.
Um, Domarius? I'm almost certain that Mr. Bane meant me when he dipped his virtual pen in the prophetic "ink".
New Horizon on 18/5/2006 at 18:59
I never thought of being able to blackjack the guards while blinded as an exploit. It just made a lot more sense that they would succumb to the blackjack while in a weakened state. Having the guards pop out of the blind state after hitting them is a rather poor attempt to balance the gameplay...it goes too far in the opposite direction...especially when all that was needed was to make the blind state 'non-blackjackable' instead of having it ramp up into a different state entirely. I would have been able to accept not being able to knock them out, if they hadn't regained their sight immediately. In my opinion, it further encouraged players to kill. At least with the former concept, it showed players that they could eliminate guards without a bloodbath....which I feel is far more important to Thief gameplay.
Goldmoon Dawn on 18/5/2006 at 18:59
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
A tool can be used in a way counter to the game's design philosophy, doesn't make it an exploit. In Thief's case, it makes it another avenue for roleplaying. Thief is in many ways more a simulation than a game-- this means you can do all sorts of things you're not "supposed" to do, yet it all still works and makes sense (more or less).
And yet, *drool*
I'm tellin' ya, there is simply no real comparison between Thief I and III.
:ebil:
