ZylonBane on 18/5/2006 at 19:17
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
Um, Domarius? I'm almost certain that Mr. Bane meant me when he dipped his virtual pen in the prophetic "ink".
No, I meant Domarius.
Aja on 18/5/2006 at 19:28
Seems to me that if I'm ever being chased and throw a flashbomb, the guards take no notice. I can only ever get em to work if they're in 3rd-level alertness, and I've never been able to stun a room full of angry guards with a flashbomb.
The only thing I can think of that might be an exploit is the forward lean - in any situation (even 4th level alert), a tiny patch of pitch-black is all you need to lean forward and knock someone out. Like ZB said though, it's up to the player's discretion to use it, and I'd rather do so than have to reload.
ZylonBane on 18/5/2006 at 19:54
Unlike the dumbed-down TDS, in classic Thief AIs are only affected by flashbombs within their field of vision. If you're being chased, you have to throw the flashbomb sufficiently far ahead that that they don't run past it before it hits the ground (but not so far ahead that it has not effect). Contrariwise, if you're standing still and want to blind a charging enemy, use the drop key to set the flash bomb off at your feet.
Brother Reginald on 18/5/2006 at 20:39
Quote Posted by Zylonbane
this means you can do all sorts of things you're not "supposed" to do, yet it all still works and makes sense (more or less).
This is one of the reasons why the first two games shine while DS has a dull glow. I must admit there was some freedom in DS, but not so much as in the classics. In the classics, it felt more like you
were Garrett, rather than a guy controlling Garrett. Though on a slightly off-topic note, one of the things I did like about DS immersion was the ability to see Garrett's body when you looked down in first person. Still, I would have traded this for black and white intro cutscenes, rope arrows or swimmable water any day!
Goldmoon Dawn on 18/5/2006 at 20:46
Yet again, it seems that some have forgotten LGS' distant past. They were one of the main influences on the 3d physics we have today, something Richard Garriot no doubt oversaw as he mentored the classic Ultima Underworld II. Even then, LGS was crafting 3d worlds that MightMagic and Wizardry fans, like myself, could only dream of at that time. Such a sad story that the company didn't get the credit and funding that it truly deserved in the long run. It almost seems like getting the Project out the door was their destiny. :p
Here's Warren:
"I've had lots of people ask me how I feel about that but I've kept quiet. I thought--and think--it was important to keep the focus on the men and women who made the LG games so great, to give them the spotlight they got all too infrequently. And, really, do I have to say how sad I am that the company is gone? I loved LG and the people who worked there as much as any company and any group of people I've ever had the privilege of working with. I can only hope the ex-LG'ers spread the gospel everywhere they go. (Given how opinionated and passionate most of 'em are, I don't think there's much to worry about on that score!) Trust me--ex-LG'ers sprinkled throughout the business will be a very good thing for gaming and, ultimately, for gamers. If there's a silver lining in the situation, that's it."
Ishtvan on 19/5/2006 at 00:55
Quote Posted by Domarius
Even if you ignore the city hub concept completely, each mission I played was pretty much as linear/non-linear as any T1 or T2 missions. There were parts where it was obvious where to go, and there were parts where you could go anywhere.
Can you honestly say that any TDS mission had architecture as nonlinear as First City Bank & Trust in T2? When your outdoor areas are limited to tiny boxed in courtyards that don't let you travel around the whole perimeter of the building, you eliminate the whole process of investigating
many different access points and figuring out which one is the least guarded, trying to visualize the inside from looking at the outside, often while avoiding outdoor patrolls.
The initial recon and planning that took place outside the building was where a lot of the fun came from for me in T1/2, and it was largely absent from TDS due to not having an explorable perimeter around most of the buildings. The only map I really got that feeling from was Overlook Manor. The outside of the Cradle looked promising to explore, but ended up having only one entrance (in this case the inside more than made up for it though :) )
ascottk on 19/5/2006 at 01:35
Due to engine constraints (stupid flesh engine anyways) in TDS the levels have a disjointed feel to them, so I was lost constantly in that game. The map layouts didn't have a flow to them. This didn't happen with T1/2, even without the help of the automap. As for the flash bomb argument, TDS was not consistant with T1/2 (several things things were not consistant), but I really don't use flash bombs that much, only to get out of sticky situations.
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Well, having your head up your ass does tend to restrict the thinking process.
You're quite the hypocrite, NylonBrain. When I approach you the same way you call me a jerk, and I approached you that way due to a previous experience in another thread. What goes around comes around, I suppose. You and Domarius must have quite the relationship to warrant that kind of attack on him.
And what is it about speaking like a true American? Do Americans have that kind of reputation? Not that I care, being American myself.
Domarius on 19/5/2006 at 10:30
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Well, you can walk up to a guard and stab him in the face. That's not stealthy. Does that make it an exploit.
No you ignored what I said - "Name any other aspect of the game you can abuse to
make the game easier than playing stealthy, and I'll show you another exploit."
What is the point of making a stealth game if you can play it easier non-stealthy? If you accept this, that's just like saying there's no good way to make a stealth game
work.
This is what I cannot understand why any of you would accept this.
Quote:
And what is it about speaking like a true American? Do Americans have that kind of reputation? Not that I care, being American myself.
I said that to put emphasis on GoldMoon's statement "here in America a wise Thief knows that once in a while a "release" from tension will only help increase the immersion." I saw no reason to mention America in relation to that.
Goldmoon Dawn on 19/5/2006 at 13:49
Quote Posted by Domarius
I said that to put emphasis on GoldMoon's statement "here in America a wise Thief knows that once in a while a "release" from tension will only help increase the immersion." I saw no reason to mention America in relation to that.
..and I went on to further explain myself. People, I have no problem with other countries, nor do I feel "better" being American.
Quote Posted by Ishtvan
First City Bank & Trust in T2? When outdoor areas let you travel around the whole perimeter of the building... the whole process of investigating
many different access points and figuring out which one is the least guarded, trying to visualize the inside from looking at the outside, often while avoiding outdoor patrolls.
The initial recon and planning that took place outside the building was where a lot of the fun came from for me in T1/2
Brilliant, I agree.
ZylonBane on 19/5/2006 at 14:55
Quote Posted by Domarius
No you ignored what I said - "Name any other aspect of the game you can abuse to
make the game easier than playing stealthy, and I'll show you another exploit."
And under many circumstances, just slaughtering a guard outright IS easier than spending the whole mission sneaking around him.
Quote:
What is the point of making a stealth game if you can play it easier non-stealthy?
Gee I dunno... FUN maybe? Some people enjoy sneaking. Some people enjoy slaughtering. Some people enjoy a situationally-appropriate mix of both.
(BTW, the adverbial form of stealth is "stealthily". "Stealthy" is the adjectival form)
