Will you buy Thiaf if there is no Garrett?

Kin on 22/5/2009 at 18:12

Quote Posted by Bulgarian_Taffer

Hm... Is Thief 2X Garrett? Is CoSaS Garrett? Is the Hammerite Imperium Garrett? Is the Dark Mod Garrett? Nay, but we all enjoy playing or seeing these projects to happen.

I think he said clearly that -thief- is Garrett and not all those you mentioned. Those are good but they are not entitled as "thief.-"

cemeth on 22/5/2009 at 20:31

Yes, but it would be a serious disadvantage which the game would need to make up for with other things.

Stath MIA on 23/5/2009 at 00:21

Quote Posted by Kin

There are other options when someone does not like to buy a game.
For example could rent it for a very low price just to play it and finish it.
If there is no Garrett as the protagonist then I will not buy the game but this does not mean that I will not play it.

I believe that at the end too many people will just rent it or download a pirate copy if the game will have no editor or Garrett and generally if the game fail to reproduce the core elements that made it sell in the past.
edit: The editor is a core element.

My point was that if it is well made and only lacks Garrett then it would seem petty, at least to me, not to play/buy it. The editor is a core element, the gameplay is a core element, the atmosphere is a core element, Garrett is an important element. If they can offer us another good character then I will still be satisfied. Please don't think this means that I don't want Garrett back, because I absolutely do, I'm just open to other possibilities.

Tannar on 23/5/2009 at 01:09

I respect your opinion but have to say that to me, Garrett is also a core element. As mxleader said, Thief without Garrett would be like Tomb Raider without Lara Croft.

mxleader on 23/5/2009 at 03:33

I never finished TDS so I wouldn't mind seeing Garrett return, because I don't have a clue as to what happened at the end of the last game. I like to pretend that TDS was just a bad nightmare of Dromed (I know it wasn't built with Dromed) going bonkers like H.A.L. 9000 and Garrett just got caught up in the middle of it all. I guess I am saying that if there is no Garrett then there is no Thief. Besides, who would take his place; one of those downwinder thieves? Could you imagine? However, I would be okay if Benny replaced Garrett as the protagonist. He could sober up and (I'm drinking rum while typing this) get back at all the people that caused him trouble over the years. Actually it would be a great game if Benny was the protagonist and he was drunk all the time and he stole booze instead of gold, and the controls responded as if you were drunk too. That would be a challenge ... trying to sneak around while drunk. Anyway, there is no real point in going on with this.

I'll start the chant:

Bring back Garrett!
Bring back Garrett!
Bring back Garrett!

P.S. I know I am going to regret this post when I sober up.

Dario on 23/5/2009 at 03:52

Ultimately, I just hope they don't "mainstream" up the story, and turn it into an Aladdin setting with a bread-thief who ends up having to stop an evil Jafar.

I don't care who's in it, as long as he's a solid character, and basically not the aforementioned Aladdin, or the prince from Prince of Persia. (bleh...) Naturally, I vote for Garrett.

Dia on 23/5/2009 at 19:49

I voted 'No', but I guess I'd just wait & read the reviews here on TTLG and on the Eidos forums before I spent any money on it. And believe me, the reviews would have to be pretty positive and favorable before I'd go out & buy it.

To me Thief just isn't Thief without Garrett.

'Nuff said.

Ostriig on 24/5/2009 at 01:17

I don't really understand the obsession with the former games' protagonist. Granted, my only experience in the series has been Deadly Shadows, which I've noticed the mere mention of gets some people's blood pressure up around here, but I'm having a hard time imagining that the previous installments made Garret, as a character, so much a part of what made them tick that a sequel without said character would be automatically reduced to the rank of turd. As much as a character can be a very valuable asset towards the construction of a narrative complex, and the overall atmosphere of the game, there is no saying that an altogether different character could not be employed by a skilled author to create a similarly compelling story. That, and the way a game plays remains a separate field entirely, of course.

That you'd prefer to see Garret make a return, that it would greatly contribute to your experience, that you'd be very disappointed if he wasn't in, that I can totally get. But as the poll itself stands, some of you are saying that you wouldn't buy Thief 4, even if it hypothetically played just like your favourite Thief game (mechanics, goals, level structuring, etc.), simply because there's no Garret. It seems... extreme.

Dia on 24/5/2009 at 01:37

Quote Posted by Ostriig

I don't really understand the obsession with the former games' protagonist. Granted, my only experience in the series has been Deadly Shadows

I mean no offense Ostriig, but your statement pretty much says it all right there. Try playing TDP and TMA in that order and then maybe you'll understand. Garrett IS the Master Thief. This is just mho but you can't really get a true idea of why Garrett makes the series to so many unless you've played the first two games in the Thief saga. Formulating an opinion on the Thief series when you've only played the last game is kind of like trying to formulate an opinion on a movie when you've just walked in and only caught the final few scenes.

TDS, while it did have its good points, didn't really bring Garrett to life the way TDP & TMA did. And I know I'm not alone in that sentiment. TDS was nowhere near as immersive and compelling as the first two games; and imo that's because TDS' Garrett was not as lifelike or believable as he was in TDP & TMA (regardless of the fact that Stephen Russell did Garrett's voice in TDS :p ). If EM chooses to replace him with a new protagonist, then they shouldn't call the game Thief. Garrett was, is, and always will be the true Master Thief. For cryin' out loud; HE'S what the whole series has been about from the very first!

I think you really need to play the first two games to fully understand.

Ostriig on 24/5/2009 at 13:44

Quote Posted by Dia

I mean no offense Ostriig, but your statement pretty much says it all right there.

None taken, no worries. However, I think you may be focusing too much on that statement at the expense of the rest of my post. What I'm getting at is that, while intertwined, you can draw a clear distinction between the way a game plays and the elements of its narrative, and that clearly stating no interest whatsoever in a game that plays exactly like Thief Takeyourpick, with the same setting, but just a different protagonist, suggests an exclusive interest in Thief, the character (i.e. Garret), rather than Thief, the game. I feel I should also add this, to give some context - I'm a big fan of Deus Ex, it's the game that first showed me the industry's capable of "more", and the foremost of those that steered me towards an education in games software engineering, which I'm currently pursuing. That said, I'm quite content with DX3's new direction in terms of setting, in part because I think the Denton arc has run its course, and also because this would give me an opportunity to explore other facets of a near-future, quasi-realistic, cyberpunk universe which I've found very compelling. What I wish of DX3 is a game that plays like DX and in a somewhat similar narrative context.

By the way, since you touched on this - if Eidos Montreal were to make a new franchise, called hypotehtically Burglar, which had the same general setting and played exactly like, say, TMA, but with a new protagonist, would you be interested in it? My point is that I think at least a good part of those No votes are either the result of misplaced interests, or exaggerated reactions to a disliked potential change. And I really don't mean any offense with that. I'm open to being wrong about this, but unless Garret's contribution to Thief is the pinnacle of things ineffable, I'd be curious for a more detailed description of said contribution and its unique qualities.

I do have T2 on my backburner, it's just that I still have some other games I need to go through before I get to it, so it won't be in the very near future. But I'll most definitely get to it.